Anemone dying?

[AcroNem]

I used to spot feed mine every few days with all sorts of frozen foods with no issue.

This system is too young IMO, i know everyone harps on the 6 months to a year, but theres a reason. I jumped the gun in the past adding a nem too soon and it took about 15-30 days before I really noticed it going down hill. IME nem's don't handle salinity swings very well. We haven't even talked about ALK or MG... At this point I highly doubt the food source is the main issue here.

I completely agree, it isn't a food related issue. It's more than likely something else, like you mentioned we haven't dealt much with parameters or other system issues it could be. We're making enclosed ecosystems, and they take some time to fully mature. Sure, the 6 month to a year thing is a suggestion, but it makes sense looking at how long these things take to get completely stable.

 

[keddre]

@CodyRVA @AcroNem

I understand the stability issue and why you should wait the six months, but wanting the anemone badly I have observed my params closely and can say that I didn't have any swings/spikes/mini-cycles for two months before I purchase the nem, and only had a one day ammonia spike (.25) 2-3 weeks before this started. Honestly, I think that I might have gotten a bad nem as I've had problems since day 1 with him..probably what I get for getting a bleached one from petco.

MG and ALK...Unkown, I use reef salt but don't bother with these levels as I only have mushrooms and one leather.

Honestly all I can say is that he's been "healthy" the past month and half then suddenly turned into a limp blob that my clown protects with her life. I'm not trying to say this like I'm fed-up or upset, I'm just being honest.

Do you think that ATO is an investment I should make if I'm keeping a nem?

Thanks

Edit: Also, I noticed that a week ago (near when this started) my PH went up from ~8.0 to 8.2. It has stayed solid at 8.2 and I can't tell you why it randomly went, and stayed, up.

 

[ebushrow]

I think we may have a food related issue...a BI-Daily feeding is extremely excessive....it is likely its guts are filled with undigested food and it is succumbing to that IMO. (Read the new article that was published yesterday on R2R about feeding)

The tank is young, the fact that there is ammonia in the water column is concerning as well....

The temp is pretty high IME....79-80 is about as high as you should go IME. Reef builders just did an article this month about it.

 

[CodyRVA]

wanting the anemone badly

Not to be blunt, but this statement and this hobby don't jive. Any impulse buy or desire will almost always end badly. I've made this mistake myself; I've learned the hard way.

Honestly, I think that I might have gotten a bad nem as I've had problems since day 1 with him..probably what I get for getting a bleached one from petco.

Honestly all I can say is that he's been "healthy" the past month and half then suddenly turned into a limp blob that my clown protects with her life. I'm not trying to say this like I'm fed-up or upset, I'm just being honest.

So, was the nem healthy when you got it or not, i'm confused?

MG and ALK...Unkown, I use reef salt but don't bother with these levels as I only have mushrooms and one leather.

Do you think that ATO is an investment I should make if I'm keeping a nem?

Edit: Also, I noticed that a week ago (near when this started) my PH went up from ~8.0 to 8.2. It has stayed solid at 8.2 and I can't tell you why it randomly went, and stayed, up.

MG plays a smaller role here, but ALK swings IMO would have an affect.

An ATO is a must have. Salinity swings are not going to bode well for basically any critter you decide to keep.

I wouldn't worry about the PH in regards to it's relevancy to your nem, but it could play into your overall chemistry.

 

[keddre]

Not to be blunt, but this statement and this hobby don't jive. Any impulse buy or desire will almost always end badly. I've made this mistake myself; I've learned the hard way.

Sorry, I meant that I was planning on an anemone back when I was planning my tank. Not so much an impulse

So, was the nem healthy when you got it or not, i'm confused

When I purchased him he was bleached. After being in my tank for a while, and getting my supplemental feedings, he colored back up. So I've had him for around two months, but he's only been at full health for a month...If that makes sense.

MG plays a smaller role here, but ALK swings IMO would have an affect.

An ATO is a must have. Salinity swings are not going to bode well for basically any critter you decide to keep.

I wouldn't worry about the PH in regards to it's relevancy to your nem, but it could play into your overall chemistry.

I'll see if my lfs (not petco) can check this for me, but I don't know what it's been for the past month so I can't tell if there was a swing.

Then it is settled, i'll get an ATO as my love for inverts is one of the main reasons I'm in the hobby.

I don't know if this is helpful but my anemone is the only one acting strange. All my other inverts are continuing life happily

 

[keddre]

I think we may have a food related issue...a BI-Daily feeding is extremely excessive....it is likely its guts are filled with undigested food and it is succumbing to that IMO. (Read the new article that was published yesterday on R2R about feeding)

The tank is young, the fact that there is ammonia in the water column is concerning as well....

The temp is pretty high IME....79-80 is about as high as you should go IME. Reef builders just did an article this month about it.

All ammonia is out as my tank is good with them. It could have undigested food, but I find it unlikely as I'm feeding self de-tailed "salad shrimp", so the pieces are barely the size of the top section of my pinky.

I'm unable to turn down the heat as my heater is on the lowest setting and if the heater is cut off then the temp would plummet. I tried before I got the anemone

 

[CodyRVA]

I think we may have a food related issue...a BI-Daily feeding is extremely excessive....it is likely its guts are filled with undigested food and it is succumbing to that IMO. (Read the new article that was published yesterday on R2R about feeding)

The tank is young, the fact that there is ammonia in the water column is concerning as well....

The temp is pretty high IME....79-80 is about as high as you should go IME. Reef builders just did an article this month about it.

I can maybe get on board with over feeding, but without proof of a contaminated food source i'm still skeptical. In any case I agree, I would stretch feeding times and make sure the food is small bits of mysis vs something larger like a shrimp; easier to digest. That being said, you know when you've over feed a nem, IME they simply won't take food. Temp is on the high side, but in regards to the OP, I don't think it's relevant to the issue.

I don't know if this is helpful but my anemone is the only one acting strange. All my other inverts are continuing life happily

This narrows things down in regards to chemistry, but not surprising. The times i've had dying nems, my other inverts were not affected. If by chance it doesn't make it, remove it ASAP.

Maybe you should consider a smaller heater?

 

[Reef_Tank_Fan_SC]

I have a Green BTA in my tank and I am no expert by any means. However on the topic if the clowns stealing his food.. what I have started doing is thawing out a mysis cube and the pulling it up into a syringe. Then I spray it down the flow from him. This allows the clowns to eat and for him to get food as well. This way it's no such a battle. He just seem to be able to get the food to his mouth faster with it not being in bigger chunks. Not sure if it would work for you... Just putting my .02 in trying to help. Hope your BTA gets to feeling better

 

[keddre]

I can maybe get on board with over feeding, but without proof of a contaminated food source i'm still skeptical. In any case I agree, I would stretch feeding times and make sure the food is small bits of mysis vs something larger like a shrimp; easier to digest. That being said, you know when you've over feed a nem, IME they simply won't take food. Temp is on the high side, but in regards to the OP, I don't think it's relevant to the issue.



This narrows things down in regards to chemistry, but not surprising. The times i've had dying nems, my other inverts were not affected. If by chance it doesn't make it, remove it ASAP.

Maybe you should consider a smaller heater?

Oh well, I'm going to keep my eye on him, but unfortunately he may not stay longer as the red is draining out his foot.
If it does come to this unfortunate end, I'll have to take my maroons out and it will lay fallow (that just means with no changes right?) until this semester ends in four months.

A smaller heater is a good idea, but I won't try it until this problem with my anemone passes, hopefully for the better

Thanks all

 

[SashimiTurtle]

What heater do you have that won't get below 82°. This is too high. Check out cobalt neotherm heaters. IMO they are the best heaters out there. Rock stable water temps and they are indestructable. I keep my tanks at 78. Nems are sensitive. ATO is a MUST with any saltwater tank, regardless of inhabitants.

 

[keddre]

What heater do you have that won't get below 82°. This is too high. Check out cobalt neotherm heaters. IMO they are the best heaters out there. Rock stable water temps and they are indestructable. I keep my tanks at 78. Nems are sensitive. ATO is a MUST with any saltwater tank, regardless of inhabitants.

Walmart's generic brand, I need a new one anyway as it's 3 years old and has always had this problem

 

[SashimiTurtle]

Sounds like theres several things contributing to the poor health of your nem. Cheap heater, lack of ATO, unknown water params, "new tank syndrome", those "salad shrimp" are probably full of preservatives and dyes to make them look appealing... I live in an area where I can get fresh wild caught shrimp from the back of a truck on the side of the road, but for someone who lives a bit more inland I would suggest a Whole Foods type grocery store and only buy from the fresh seafood counter and always ask for country of origin.

Also, @Amoo put up a great post yesterday on feeding nems. TLDR of that post is if you really want your nem to grow, feed it once a week and only a meal no bigger than twice its mouth size when fully closed. Other wise feed once a month, or never.

 

[keddre]

oh well, after this semester, my "new tank syndrome" should be well past; plus this gives me plenty of time to find better food sources.
I'll save up for a quality ATO and heater, and try again when school ends.

I should add that I really hope my LTA pulls around

 

[SashimiTurtle]

Tunze makes an awesome ATO. I have the AutoAqua Smart Micro ATO on my nano and it's a great little system. You can get them for around $130.

 

[Amoo]

How often do you do water changes?

 

[keddre]

How often do you do water changes?

Every Saturday

 

[Amoo]

ok so here's my thinking.

One of the first things I would do would be to stop feeding the nem and read the article I posted yesterday.

Secondly I would take some water to your local petco and ask them to test it for you. With a feeding regimen like yours I'm simply not believing your 0 nitrates test kit. Just from the first pics I see diatoms everywhere which tells me you definitely have some extra nutrients in there.

You turned your light off on your fuge, with no mention of what was in your fuge. What was the light feeding previously? Did you have some sort of nutrient export that you no longer have other then weekly water changes?

Lastly, the reason people make the recommendation about time has literally 0 to do with the tank itself. I can short cycle a tank in 24 hours with chemical adds, toss a nem in the next day and go on about my merry way. This isn't because I'm some kind of expert God of all thing Anemone, it's because I understand my tank, my Nems and their workings well enough to know what kind of actions I need to take. Granted some of that comes from experience with having nems for so long, but a lot of it is just basic reef keeping things that you don't have yet. As an example, whenever I read a post in which somebody has a nem and the parameters they give me are pH, Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates I already assume they are probably inexperienced in the hobby and are probably using API test kits. No experienced reefer is going to give any of those readings except Nitrates and maybe pH unless for some reason one of them are relevant. You just recently had a pH shift of .2. What causes a pH shift? The shift happened around the time you offlined or at least unlit your sump, what was in the sump that would cause such a reaction?

The lot of what I'm saying is the nem time length recommendation has literally NOTHING to do with tank age and everything to do with reefer experience. We're now in a situation here with your nem, like many before yours, where we have to poke and prod you for questions like the ones I just asked in this post to try to figure out what basic reefkeeping skills one would/should have learned by the time they are looking to add their first nem. I'm not saying I or anybody else expect people to be reef experts the minute a nem touches their water, but my feeling in your situation and many others (so please don't feel I'm picking on you here) is you have tank issues which are now affecting the Nem and we need to figure out what those are first and foremost.

EDIT: Nevermind you did post that about the fuge light.

 

[keddre]

stop feeding the nem and read the article I posted yesterday

Haven't fed in a week and I read your post earlier today, check.

Just from the first pics I see diatoms everywhere which tells me you definitely have some extra nutrients in there

Diatoms are caused by high amounts of silica...probably should have mentioned that. Also my tank was specifically built to run heavy feedings multiple times a day...that being said I'll do another water test today

What was the light feeding previously

Dragons breath. I also have caulerpa in my tank but my foxface chops it down as soon as a new leaf pops up.

Probably using API test kits

Saying this respectfully, although mine is an API kit, it's probably better/just as good as what I currently have access to. My petco uses an API freshwater kit and my lfs uses the same API saltwater

so please don't feel I'm picking on you here

It's fine, at least you're helping and giving good info

Edit: I tried chaeto too but it always just died in my tank, so there might be a stray strand or two

 

[Amoo]

What happened to the dragons breath?

Also what kind of test kits are you using and can you afford to get a second kind? Even if it's just a nitrate test kit. I forget what kind of kit we had in stock when I ran the fish room at my Petco for two months after I was transitioning out of the Navy, but they should have something. Definitely try to make that a priority.

Can you get us a full tank shot and maybe a separate one of the fuge with the light on?

Right now I'm mainly trying to get the basics out of your tank and see what kind of equipment you have running and what your ins and outs look like.

Need to run to the store, be back in 30-45 with answers if you've updated.

Need to mention, if your nem is dying we need a pic ASAP as if it needs to come out it needs to come out or will nuke the rest of your tank, and no the loss of the nem will not mean you have to fallow your tank, your clowns will be fine although act strangely without it.

 

[keddre]

What happened to the dragons breath

Slowly died after my Caulerpa was added

Also what kind of test kits are you using and can you afford to get a second kind?

"API SALTWATER MASTER TEST KIT", the liquids for ammonia, nitrate, nitrite and PH. I can afford another kind but I wasn't able to find one last time. I'll pass petco and a good lfs after work though so I'll stop at both and look again since it's been a couple months

Can you get us a full tank shot and maybe a separate one of the fuge with the light on

Sure, but it will be a few hours as I'm at work

will not mean you have to fallow your tank, your clowns will be fine although act strangely without it

It will be fallow because I can't afford any of the fish I want while classes are in session and I'll only be working 16 hour weeks- this hobby is too costly
I'm not sure what I'll do about the clowns as the female is a bully and I don't think I want to see her trying to find a new home.

Without pictures here's the complete overview of my tank.