ATO Gravity fed

[Greybeard]

I used to have the R-100 sump on my old 60g cube, used that gravity feed topoff valve for a couple of years.

Bought Eshopps 5g reservoir for it... yeah, it's more expensive, but it worked out well for me.

Today, I've got a 140... still using that reservoir. Added a controller based solenoid system to refill the reservoir every few days, and a Tunze ATO to get from the reservoir to the sump, but I'm still happy with the Eshopps reservoir.

A pick of the old sump setup for the 60g cube...

 

[Neo Jeo]

Direct RO/DI to sump is hard on your DI resin and there is the "TDS creep" that happens with this type of application.

Also in the remote possibly of a solenoid failure in the "on" position, a major flood could occur.

The safest application of ATO would be a ATO Reservoir total volume that wouldn't exceed your sumps ability to hold. In the case of failure and the ATO dumped it's total contents into the sump, it wouldn't be catastrophic.

Also a word on mechanical float valves in the sump, if anything gets between the valve surface keeping it from closing completely, the total contents of the ATO could dump into the sump. This application also is not to be used with kalkwasser in the ATO for the same reason. Calcium build up can occur over time and keep the valve open.

Ok thanks! What other float valve would I use with kalkwasser? I just read about kalkwasser? Is it really good to do? I want to start my corallin growth asap. Thanks

 

[Neo Jeo]

I used to have the R-100 sump on my old 60g cube, used that gravity feed topoff valve for a couple of years.

Bought Eshopps 5g reservoir for it... yeah, it's more expensive, but it worked out well for me.

Today, I've got a 140... still using that reservoir. Added a controller based solenoid system to refill the reservoir every few days, and a Tunze ATO to get from the reservoir to the sump, but I'm still happy with the Eshopps reservoir.

A pick of the old sump setup for the 60g cube...

Looks great! Question about the gravity fed. How high does it need to be to work? all the way past that float valve? Im also using a Eshopp sump like yours. Can I add Kalk to the res? or will a pump controller like you have be a better option? I still have not looked into dosing.

Do you have your RO system run a every few days to save the RO system? I have an option to have fresh water pore manually into a bucket for ATO, seems like the better way to go.

 

[Flippers4pups]

Ok thanks! What other float valve would I use with kalkwasser? I just read about kalkwasser? Is it really good to do? I want to start my corallin growth asap. Thanks

No mechanical float valve is recommend. (Personal story: back in the 90's I had my ATO Reservoir attached to my sump via mechanical float valve. I started using kalkwasser in the ATO because of the benefits (young and dumb, not thinking) and after six months of use, one day I came home from work and my DT was like milk! I went down stairs and my floor was flooded and the sump was completely full! The ATO Reservoir dumped it's entire contents into the sump. On inspection, calcium build up occured at the valve seat and it kept the valve from closing. Lesson learned, the hard way.)

Since then it's been nothing but redundant electronic float switches for me. They have never failed me in all this time.

 

[Neo Jeo]

No mechanical float valve is recommend. (Personal story: back in the 90's I had my ATO Reservoir attached to my sump via mechanical float valve. I started using kalkwasser in the ATO because of the benefits (young and dumb, not thinking) and after six months of use, one day I came home from work and my DT was like milk! I went down stairs and my floor was flooded and the sump was completely full! The ATO Reservoir dumped it's entire contents into the sump. On inspection, calcium build up occured at the valve seat and it kept the valve from closing. Lesson learned, the hard way.)

Since then it's been nothing but redundant electronic float switches for me. They have never failed me in all this time.

Thank you for sharing what electronic foot valve do you recommend ? Also Calc dosing should I use a controller instead of adding it to my auto top off ?

 

[Greybeard]

Looks great! Question about the gravity fed. How high does it need to be to work? all the way past that float valve? Im also using a Eshopp sump like yours. Can I add Kalk to the res? or will a pump controller like you have be a better option? I still have not looked into dosing.

Do you have your RO system run a every few days to save the RO system? I have an option to have fresh water pore manually into a bucket for ATO, seems like the better way to go.

I don't recommend Kalkwasser dosing without some fairly serious safeguards against overdosing. A single mechanical valve? Nope, not me. Simple ATO? with a 5g reservoir, on a tank with a total volume of 75 gallons or so... If it all dumps in, well, no big deal. Dump 5g of saturated kalk solution? You'll wipe out the tank. I'm fine with a simple mechanical ATO, with a LIMITED quantity of RO/DI, but for anything with a higher chance of killing the system, I want more.

Don't get me wrong... I like kalkwasser, and highly recommend it, if you've got a system that can be supported by it, it's an excellent way to go. But. You've _got_ to be safe about it.

My current ATO reservoir fill... RO/DI unit is plumbed through a solenoid, run by my controller. Solenoid is only open for a couple of hours, twice a week. My RO/DI won't produce much more than what I'm needing in that amount of time. When the solenoid is open, there is a float switch at the top of my ATO reservoir that will close it, if the water level reaches that level... which it should never do, since the outlet into the reservoir is on a float valve. Oh, and I have a cheap battery powered water alarm on the floor next to the reservoir.

So... I don't have to manually do anything, when the RO/DI unit kicks on, it needs to produce a couple of gallons of water at a time, so I'm avoiding the RO/DI 'creep' issue that people talk about, and, IF something goes wrong, I'd have to have a minimum of 2 devices fail before it would cause a problem, and even then, it's not really that bad of a problem.

From the reservoir to the sump, I'm using a Tunze ATO... It has an optical sensor, backup mechanical sensor, and a timer to limit the damage if both fail. I don't like to mix Kalkwassser in my ATO reservoir, mostly because it's hard on the pump... so I use an inline Kalk mixing device (Tunze 5074 Calc Dispenser), with an inline anti-back flow valve.

Complex? Perhaps... but it's quite safe, and other than inspecting the system weekly, I don't have to touch a thing.

 

[Neo Jeo]

I don't recommend Kalkwasser dosing without some fairly serious safeguards against overdosing. A single mechanical valve? Nope, not me. Simple ATO? with a 5g reservoir, on a tank with a total volume of 75 gallons or so... If it all dumps in, well, no big deal. Dump 5g of saturated kalk solution? You'll wipe out the tank. I'm fine with a simple mechanical ATO, with a LIMITED quantity of RO/DI, but for anything with a higher chance of killing the system, I want more.

Don't get me wrong... I like kalkwasser, and highly recommend it, if you've got a system that can be supported by it, it's an excellent way to go. But. You've _got_ to be safe about it.

My current ATO reservoir fill... RO/DI unit is plumbed through a solenoid, run by my controller. Solenoid is only open for a couple of hours, twice a week. My RO/DI won't produce much more than what I'm needing in that amount of time. When the solenoid is open, there is a float switch at the top of my ATO reservoir that will close it, if the water level reaches that level... which it should never do, since the outlet into the reservoir is on a float valve. Oh, and I have a cheap battery powered water alarm on the floor next to the reservoir.

So... I don't have to manually do anything, when the RO/DI unit kicks on, it needs to produce a couple of gallons of water at a time, so I'm avoiding the RO/DI 'creep' issue that people talk about, and, IF something goes wrong, I'd have to have a minimum of 2 devices fail before it would cause a problem, and even then, it's not really that bad of a problem.

From the reservoir to the sump, I'm using a Tunze ATO... It has an optical sensor, backup mechanical sensor, and a timer to limit the damage if both fail. I don't like to mix Kalkwassser in my ATO reservoir, mostly because it's hard on the pump... so I use an inline Kalk mixing device (Tunze 5074 Calc Dispenser), with an inline anti-back flow valve.

Complex? Perhaps... but it's quite safe, and other than inspecting the system weekly, I don't have to touch a thing.

Love that set up. I would just have to figure out how long to run the RO and when to. I guess that would take time. I would do a Emergancy shut off device before the silinoid check this out https://www.isopurewater.com/Water-...MI3vTYpv-b2AIVVrbACh1VFgGnEAQYAiABEgLLjvD_BwE

Then the silinoid switch to a timer then to my resivor bucket with a flat switch and that emergency shut off device also has a flat switch I can install. 3 systems to stop if something happens. Then use the Tunze with the extra kalk system. What do you think about that?

 

[Greybeard]

Love that set up. I would just have to figure out how long to run the RO and when to. I guess that would take time.

What do you think about that?

My RO/DI is _supposed_ to make 75GPD, which is a little more than 3 GPH. Reservoir is 5 gallons. I set the timer to 1.5 hours Mon/Weds/Fri, starting at 9am, and watched it for a few days. It was using half the reservoir in 2 days, 3/4 in 3 days, and was completely filled in just over an hour. Changed it to Mon/Thurs fill, for 2 hours. It's nearly empty on Monday morning, but has never gone completely dry. Two hours is plenty to fill it back up. Haven't had to touch it since, even with the dry winter air. Float valve has been 100% reliable so far, it's never tripped the float switch at the top of the reservoir, and never leaked a drop on the floor. I then changed the refill time to 3am. If it's going to leak on the floor, it'd do it at 4:30am or so... and the water alarm is plenty loud enough to wake me up if it goes off.

Avast makes a device called a 'barrel tender' that gave me the idea. It's basically a sump pump controller for a bucket or barrel... on when it reaches near empty, off when it reaches near full. I got my plan from their design, but didn't want to have a float switch fully submerged all of the time.

 

[Neo Jeo]

My RO/DI is _supposed_ to make 75GPD, which is a little more than 3 GPH. Reservoir is 5 gallons. I set the timer to 1.5 hours Mon/Weds/Fri, starting at 9am, and watched it for a few days. It was using half the reservoir in 2 days, 3/4 in 3 days, and was completely filled in just over an hour. Changed it to Mon/Thurs fill, for 2 hours. It's nearly empty on Monday morning, but has never gone completely dry. Two hours is plenty to fill it back up. Haven't had to touch it since, even with the dry winter air. Float valve has been 100% reliable so far, it's never tripped the float switch at the top of the reservoir, and never leaked a drop on the floor. I then changed the refill time to 3am. If it's going to leak on the floor, it'd do it at 4:30am or so... and the water alarm is plenty loud enough to wake me up if it goes off.

Avast makes a device called a 'barrel tender' that gave me the idea. It's basically a sump pump controller for a bucket or barrel... on when it reaches near empty, off when it reaches near full. I got my plan from their design, but didn't want to have a float switch fully submerged all of the time.

ok thanks for the tips. Do you think it would be a bad idea to have it ran right to my sump from my ro system? Have it run around 25min per day? to stop that creed? or creep thing they call it?

 

[Greybeard]

ok thanks for the tips. Do you think it would be a bad idea to have it ran right to my sump from my ro system? Have it run around 25min per day? to stop that creed? or creep thing they call it?

Direct to sump, with a short duration daily, is going to make the salinity bounce by however much evaporation you have in a day. As water level goes down, salinity level goes up... I don't know that this would be a problem... depends on how much evaporation you have vs the system volume. If the swing is from 1.026 to 1.025, I doubt anything would notice. If it's from 1.026 to 1.020, I wouldn't do it. If the salinity swing is too great, perhaps you could open the solenoid for half as long, twice as often?

Aside from that rather obvious complication, it sounds like a good plan. Timer, solenoid, float valve, float switch... should be safe enough.

 

[Neo Jeo]

Direct to sump, with a short duration daily, is going to make the salinity bounce by however much evaporation you have in a day. As water level goes down, salinity level goes up... I don't know that this would be a problem... depends on how much evaporation you have vs the system volume. If the swing is from 1.026 to 1.025, I doubt anything would notice. If it's from 1.026 to 1.020, I wouldn't do it. If the salinity swing is too great, perhaps you could open the solenoid for half as long, twice as often?

Aside from that rather obvious complication, it sounds like a good plan. Timer, solenoid, float valve, float switch... should be safe enough.

I don’t think the salinity lvl will change that much but I don’t know. With the resivor won’t the RO unit turn on and off as the ato turns on? Will that still cause that creed thing with the RO system?

 

[Neo Jeo]

Nm you already answered my question above Lol I just had to re-read

 

[Neo Jeo]

I don't recommend Kalkwasser dosing without some fairly serious safeguards against overdosing. A single mechanical valve? Nope, not me. Simple ATO? with a 5g reservoir, on a tank with a total volume of 75 gallons or so... If it all dumps in, well, no big deal. Dump 5g of saturated kalk solution? You'll wipe out the tank. I'm fine with a simple mechanical ATO, with a LIMITED quantity of RO/DI, but for anything with a higher chance of killing the system, I want more.

Don't get me wrong... I like kalkwasser, and highly recommend it, if you've got a system that can be supported by it, it's an excellent way to go. But. You've _got_ to be safe about it.

My current ATO reservoir fill... RO/DI unit is plumbed through a solenoid, run by my controller. Solenoid is only open for a couple of hours, twice a week. My RO/DI won't produce much more than what I'm needing in that amount of time. When the solenoid is open, there is a float switch at the top of my ATO reservoir that will close it, if the water level reaches that level... which it should never do, since the outlet into the reservoir is on a float valve. Oh, and I have a cheap battery powered water alarm on the floor next to the reservoir.

So... I don't have to manually do anything, when the RO/DI unit kicks on, it needs to produce a couple of gallons of water at a time, so I'm avoiding the RO/DI 'creep' issue that people talk about, and, IF something goes wrong, I'd have to have a minimum of 2 devices fail before it would cause a problem, and even then, it's not really that bad of a problem.

From the reservoir to the sump, I'm using a Tunze ATO... It has an optical sensor, backup mechanical sensor, and a timer to limit the damage if both fail. I don't like to mix Kalkwassser in my ATO reservoir, mostly because it's hard on the pump... so I use an inline Kalk mixing device (Tunze 5074 Calc Dispenser), with an inline anti-back flow valve.

Complex? Perhaps... but it's quite safe, and other than inspecting the system weekly, I don't have to touch a thing.

I’m confused on your float valve vs float switch... what’s the difference? I also looked into the V2 but I don’t something stopping the water if there unit fails. How long have they been making it??

Thanks for all your info and help so far!

 

[Reef-junky]

You always want redundancy. A lot of ATO systems use float switchs. You want to have more then one or one float switch and one electronic eye. A float valve is mechanical where as a float switch is electrical.

Float switch is top picture next to it is an electronic eye bottom is float valve.

 

[Greybeard]

I’m confused on your float valve vs float switch... what’s the difference? I also looked into the V2 but I don’t something stopping the water if there unit fails. How long have they been making it??

Thanks for all your info and help so far!

A Float valve is a mechanical device, non-electric, that stops flow when water rises enough to lift a float.

A float switch is an electrical component, that opens or closes an electrical connection when the water level rises (or falls)

 

[Neo Jeo]

A Float valve is a mechanical device, non-electric, that stops flow when water rises enough to lift a float.

A float switch is an electrical component, that opens or closes an electrical connection when the water level rises (or falls)

Thank you for the clarification. You think it would be best to do it like yours or buy the V2? Did it take a while to figure out your set up?

 

[Neo Jeo]

Do you think this would be best as back up?
Water Controller (LCS 14) Leak Detector Water Alarm & Shut-Off System 1/4"" QC

or one of those cheap ones that suck up water and shut off manually.

 

[Reef-junky]

An ATO can be as simple or complex as you like. A gravity feed ATO would work just fine. You could go with an ATO system like tunze or use a controller. Depends on how much money you want to spend and what kind of redundancy you want.

 

[Neo Jeo]

Anyone know what part I can use to hook up my RO system to a copper line that is going into my hot water tank? Or should I hook it up to the main water line that’s in my basement? Mines newer plumbing so it’s blue plastic line.

Thanks!

 

[Neo Jeo]

Also: How can I hook up power to this? https://www.amazon.com/DIGITEN-Sole.../B00X6RAHMU/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8