Backup return pump plumbing question

[Brinypivot]

I’ve been out of reefing for awhile...getting sucked back in!

I started 4 different tanks about 8 years ago and shut them all down about 5 years ago for a lot of reasons. Mostly I didn’t know what I was doing when I started, so the tanks never were plumbed correctly, basically ALL the newbie mistakes.

Planning on getting a Red Sea 425 Reefer Deluxe on Black Friday. Probably won’t go on sale below MAP (holding my breath), but hoping for the best LFS or online perks for a big purchase. Anyone have a deal they know of...PLEASE share!

I’ve been studying and studying and studying for over a year now. That said, technology is amazing on how much it has progressed since I shut mine down. I feel like I am drinking from a firehose. While I am getting a grip on new technology, I have an old school plumbing question...

I want to install a backup return pump. I don’t want it to run unless the primary fails. I want to be able to turn it on via an Apex controller if I happen to be in China (I travel internationally a lot, yes I have someone I will be using as a professional tank sitter, but I’m sure the day I need them they will be in a car wreck or something...I can be incredibly unlucky). I can’t decide what type of valve to install, I need it to fail open when the backpressure from the main pump is gone. Would a swing valve work? I’m kinda looking for something like an ECPO valve (electronically controlled, pneumatically actuated) in aviation hydraulics, but without the electronic part. I think a simple swing valve would work with PVC?

I keep Googling and can’t find a specific answer to this type of install. Anyone have a link? Anyone do a backup install like this? Do I even have a basic understanding of what I’m trying to do??? Basically I want a Boeing system in my sump.

#reefsquad

 

[lapin]

Another method might be an inline flow meter for an neptune apex controller. Perhaps it can turn on an outlet (back up pump) if it senses zero flow from the main pump.

 

[redfishbluefish]

#Reefsquad , interesting idea.....any thoughts?

 

[Brew12]

Probably won’t go on sale below MAP (holding my breath), but hoping for the best LFS or online perks for a big purchase. Anyone have a deal they know of...PLEASE share!

I've heard rumors that the RS tanks may go on sale for Black Friday itself, with a 10% or 15% discount. Can't confirm that yet though. I'd keep watching your preferred Redsea dealer.

I think a simple swing valve would work with PVC?

I use one on my single return pump line and I don't see why it wouldn't work for what you want to do. This is what I use. The true union design makes it easy to clean/maintain. Very important to keep it working right. Every 4 months to clean seems to work well.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/spears-true-union-check-valve.html

 

[ZoWhat]

I’ve been out of reefing for awhile...getting sucked back in!

Does your Accountant.... I mean.... Spouse.... know this? LOL LOL

My Wife said with Black Friday and Cyber Monday coming up.... Quote, "You gotta go easy until the first of the Year."

Translation = you spend any money on coral or fish crap this weekend, I'm gonna....(you fill in the blank)

 

[Brinypivot]

Thank you! I kinda don’t know how to do hashtags...

 

[Fin]

I like @lapin idea above, if you want one to sit idle until needed. Personally, I am using two pumps on mine, both of which will run continuously. Each pump will feed a separate return (Sea Swirls), dialed back so they won’t overload my overflow. That way, if one shuts off, the other will (hopefully) keep moving water through the sump until the problem can be corrected.

 

[Brinypivot]

I've heard rumors that the RS tanks may go on sale for Black Friday itself, with a 10% or 15% discount. Can't confirm that yet though. I'd keep watching your preferred Redsea dealer.


I use one on my single return pump line and I don't see why it wouldn't work for what you want to do. This is what I use. The true union design makes it easy to clean/maintain. Very important to keep it working right. Every 4 months to clean seems to work well.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/spears-true-union-check-valve.html

Thanks! I added that to my cart. So here is the thing, if I have flow going to a pump that is not operating until I turn it on via the Apex, won’t the inlet water flow over it, opening that valve, even with the pump shut off? What kind of a valve would I put on the inlet side of the standby return pump so water goes around it to the main pump?

 

[Brew12]

Thanks! I added that to my cart. So here is the thing, if I have flow going to a pump that is not operating until I turn it on via the Apex, won’t the inlet water flow over it, opening that valve, even with the pump shut off? What kind of a valve would I put on the inlet side of the standby return pump so water goes around it to the main pump?

Put one on the discharge of each pump in a direction to allow water flow up. The force of the flow from the running pump will force open the check valve above it. When it tries to recirculate back to the idle pump, it will force that check valve closed. This will direct all flow from either pump up to the tank.

 

[Brinypivot]

Does your Accountant.... I mean.... Spouse.... know this? LOL LOL

My Wife said with Black Friday and Cyber Monday coming up.... Quote, "You gotta go easy until the first of the Year."

Translation = you spend any money on coral or fish crap this weekend, I'm gonna....(you fill in the blank)

LOL! Um. Well, he would like me to fixate on something besides politics for awhile...so he is good with a transfer of hyper-focus issues. Plus, I have 4 boys at home, 17, 15, 13, and 12. I’m am getting them heavily involved because it would be nice to have a “project” together...although they are currently arguing over fish, so I may regret this.

 

[Brinypivot]

I like @lapin idea above, if you want one to sit idle until needed. Personally, I am using two pumps on mine, both of which will run continuously. Each pump will feed a separate return (Sea Swirls), dialed back so they won’t overload my overflow. That way, if one shuts off, the other will (hopefully) keep moving water through the sump until the problem can be corrected.

I think the Red Sea 425 isn’t drilled for 2 returns...I was thinking about that idea initially. I am still thinking about it as I could have it drilled...

 

[Brinypivot]

Put one on the discharge of each pump in a direction to allow water flow up. The force of the flow from the running pump will force open the check valve above it. When it tries to recirculate back to the idle pump, it will force that check valve closed. This will direct all flow from either pump up to the tank.

Bingo! That’s it!!! You’re right, the pressure from a higher output main would keep the non-operating discharge valve closed, even with water behind the non-operating pump. I’ll definitely split the line for the intake...

 

[Fin]

I think the Red Sea 425 isn’t drilled for 2 returns...I was thinking about that idea initially. I am still thinking about it as I could have it drilled...

I am using Sea Swirls, which do not require holes in the tank. They clamp to the back of the tank and provide an oscillating flow from each return line. My tank is actually drilled for two returns, just in case I decide I want to move on from the Sea Swirls. I will cap them off in the mean time.

Looks like this.