Cleaning sand bed

[Vette67]

So, is cleaning the sand bed actually a thing now? I’ve had a reef tank in some form or another since 1997. In 23 years, I have never, ever once vacuumed the sand bed. In my mind, the sand bed is it’s own living, breathing entity. To disturb it would be to render it completely useless for nitrifying bacteria. It is populated with worms, copepods, snails and other benthic organisms. I learned to let it live and let the worms and snails turn it over and oxygenate it.

I’m seeing more and more posts about how people vacuum their sand. Is this a new thing? Am I stuck in an old way of thinking?

 

[Qasimja]

So, is cleaning the sand bed actually a thing now? I’ve had a reef tank in some form or another since 1997. In 23 years, I have never, ever once vacuumed the same bed. In my mind, the sand bed is it’s own living, breathing entity. To disturb it would be to render it completely useless for nitrifying bacteria. It is populated with worms, copepods, snails and other benthic organisms. I learned to let it live and let the worms and snails turn it over and oxygenate it.

I’m seeing more and more posts about how people vacuum their sand. Is this a new thing? Am I stuck in an old way of thinking?

i never messed with my sand bed either in all my years of reefing but this build i unfortunately wound up with dinos that covered my sand bed so i constantly had to stir it to remove them

 

[Greg P]

I also had to stir my sand and change socks for a few weeks about month 2 or 3 of this build. But I've left it alone since as the dinos finally went away.
In the past, I've left my sand alone until it got a bit 'top' ugly. Then i would siphon off about a 1/2" and replace with recycled/cleaned sand. This is how I will be taking care of this tank moving forward.

I agree with your thoughts @Vette67 about leaving the life to do it's thing, if it's balanced and working well.

 

[Nano sapiens]

One can get away with minimal sand bed cleaning, or even none at all, in large systems where a large variety of creatures can help keep a substrate friable and frequently send detritus into the water column to be captured by mechanical filtration...and then the material can removed from the system when cleaned. When larger deep sand beds (typically defined as 6" deep or more and often set up in a sump) are part of the system they can be left undisturbed by the aquarist for long periods of time (10 - 15 years or even more in some cases). Sand dwelling organisms do the work in such systems and need to be protected from predation.

Sand bed vacuuming is more essential in smaller 'nano' systems which have a much reduced sand cleaning crew, and often a large biomass in relation to the water volume, so the reef keeper has to be more active with substrate cleaning duties. Techniques such as the blowing of detritus from the rock and sand with a baster or hand-held pump to then be captured by mechanical filtration, and vacuuming of the substrate, help to export nutrients which keeps the system healthy over an extended period of time.

Even smaller Reef Vase type pico tanks can simply have the sand bed flushed with a weekly 80 - 100% water change.

Regularly working a shallow sand bed has little effect on nitrifying bacteria. While undoubtedly some bacteria are removed from the system, repopulation doesn't take long (estimates range from ~ 6 to 15 hours for cell division, essentially doubling the population). Same goes for sand bed organisms, but obviously repopulation takes longer with these higher lifeforms.

 

[willieboy240]

Yeah old school reefer here too. Don’t release the Cracken !!! See so many problems when people start touching those deep sand beds.

 

[brandon429]

Another fact to add to the mix

doing nothing about a nonperforming sandbed (producing nitrate vs consuming it) won’t help, meaning the hands off mode only works for performing sandbeds. Those who have working sandbeds have no way to advise the masses on repeating the success, as soon as ten other people follow the rules exactly right, they get massive outbreaks that won’t go away etc. the reason sandbed access has become a thing is due to extremely low repeatability in making hands off sandbeds, working ones are a unicorn. Lastly, the tanks that can sit in a home 20+ yrs are the 1% as most people have to move. We have threads where moving homes destroyed their reefs when it was time to access, the hobby needs a safe way to deal with pent up waste when it is time to access. Many people choose to predict ahead nowadays and prevent the liability from building up

What the hobby needs is a 10+ page thread where hands off sandbed keepers make restorations live time or home transfer works while keeping the entire bed in place. Those two facets of sandbed work are missing from the hobby.

 

[Lorenzo Angotti]

I agree, the only sand cleaning I do is at the very front and sides with a long handle algae scrape and a light rake just to keep the glass looking clean at its base, I leave the snails and my pistol shrimp to turn over the sand.

 

[Vette67]

Another fact to add to the mix

doing nothing about a nonperforming sandbed (producing nitrate vs consuming it) won’t help, meaning the hands off mode only works for performing sandbeds. Those who have working sandbeds have no way to advise the masses on repeating the success, as soon as ten other people follow the rules exactly right, they get massive outbreaks that won’t go away etc. the reason sandbed access has become a thing is due to extremely low repeatability in making hands off sandbeds, working ones are a unicorn. Lastly, the tanks that can sit in a home 20+ yrs are the 1% as most people have to move. We have threads where moving homes destroyed their reefs when it was time to access, the hobby needs a safe way to deal with pent up waste when it is time to access. Many people choose to predict ahead nowadays and prevent the liability from building up

What the hobby needs is a 10+ page thread where hands off sandbed keepers make restorations live time or home transfer works while keeping the entire bed in place. Those two facets of sandbed work are missing from the hobby.

I swore I wasn't going to get on my soap box, but here goes... That is an interesting thought about non performing sand beds. I would argue that all sand beds are non performing, and that the sand bed makes up a small percentage of our filtering capabilities. Full disclosure, my 180 has about 3/4 to 1" of sand. It is by no means a high performing unicorn of a DSB. I would expect nitrates to be elevated in a closed system, but I would not blame the sand bed. I would argue that the sand bed is doing it's job, processing solid waste and converting it to DOC's that are being poured into the water column. From there, it is our job to deal with it. Instead of vacuuming it out, wouldn't it be better to export it naturally? 2 ways come to mind. Chaeto in a fuge (how I do it), or a ATS. I export 2 or 3 gallons of chaeto from my system each month, which does more for my water parameters than any sand bed will, in my experience. Also, when I set up my system, I got a scoop of sand from an established system to help seed mine with good bacteria. That is also a practice that seems to have gone out of style, that should really be an essential part of setting up a new system. I don't believe that sand in a bag has even close to the same biodiversity as a good fresh scoop of dirty sand from a fellow established reefer.

In my opinion, what is being lost is biodiversity, and it is being perpetrated by the people that have most to gain from it. "Clean Chaeto". What a complete and utter lie to perpetrate on good reef keepers. I can't tell you how much biodiversity is contained in my chaeto, from worms to copepods to amphipods to snais, bacteria and whatever else. Why would you want to clean that? I purposely got chaeto from another reefer for the express reason of introducing as many critters as I could to my system. All because we are worried about aptasia? They are just a fact of life. Peppermint shrimp work wonders. And this goes to what I see as the fundamental change in reef keeping in the last 10 or so years, which I think it is a step backwards. In the days before controllers, we had to search for natural solutions to our problems. Now, we want that expensive controller, and chemicals to fix our problems. Low pH, add soda ash. Add trosodium phosphate. Add amino acids. Add chemiclean... All to chase numbers. Instead of chasing biodiversity and natural solutions. And what's funny... The natural solutions are cheaper, work better, and last longer. But I can't keep selling you chemiclean if you have strong biodiversity and naturally running system. I have made my fair share of mistakes along the way and it has taken YEARS to get my system to where it is. That's just how I see things. Feel free to disagree.

 

[Nano sapiens]

That's just how I see things. Feel free to disagree.

No disagreement here and I see more and more of these types of threads from 'old timers' getting frustrated with the direction that this hobby is taking.

My first 'reef tank' was back in 1984 and built/run using many of the principles developed in Europe at the time (true live rock, sand/gravel and a modest protein skimmer). IMO, what many folks are trying to do today makes reef keeping so much more difficult in both the short and the long term.

I set up a very simple small tank nearly 12 years ago partially to illustrate to a co-worker starting off in the hobby that a reef aquarium built on 'old school' natural principles, even a small volume one, doesn't have to be difficult or expensive (he had tried and failed to keep a nano using mostly dry rock and dry sand). Unfortunately, he passed away unexpectedly before my system matured, but I have kept the aquarium running as an example of what can be achieved with a 'simple system' (pump, heater, lights, regular WCs and no mech/chem filtration) and appropriate maintenance to balance input/export. Interestingly, according to an Aquabiomics report this old system has a higher than average diversity of bacteria/archaea (most old systems tend to have decreased biodiversity) and a higher than typical amount of nitrifiers. I attribute this to the initial setup using live rock/live sand from my previous 55g setup, never using any chemicals to treat 'problems' and a salt mix containing Red Sea salt (evaporated sea salt base that contains viable bacteria).

I remember a good while back reading that a test was done comparing nitrification effectiveness for live rock vs. live sand (can't find the article, unfortunately). In that comparison, at least, live sand processed much more nitrate than live rock. The caveat is that any results are dependent on many factors such as amount of live rock and sand being compared, type and porosity of both, how thick the sand bed is, etc.

 

[Vette67]

No disagreement here and I see more and more of these types of threads from 'old timers' getting frustrated with the direction that this hobby is taking.

Sorry about your friend.

But that me laugh. Hard to think of myself, at 48, as an “old timer”. But it guess if the shoe fits, wear it!

I did buy my live rock in the good old days where a 50 pound box was directly trans-shipped from Fiji to my front door. And it even came with a free pistol shrimp! But yes, we used to call it the Berlin method of reef keeping.

I am always trying to learn. The original intent of my post was to see if there was some new thinking out when it came to sand bed maintenance. As an engineer, I am always looking to do things better. I will never claim to know everything. And if I ever get to that point in this hobby where I know everything, then it’ll be time for a new hobby. But I do agree that a lot of “new” information being reported is in the express interest of vendors, who have only their own interests at heart. And it is frustrating to see this hobby over complicated and over commercialized. But that’s what happens when there is money to be made on misinformation.

 

[Nano sapiens]

But that me laugh. Hard to think of myself, at 48, as an “old timer”. But it guess if the shoe fits, wear it!

Eventually, we all get there

I did buy my live rock in the good old days where a 50 pound box was directly trans-shipped from Fiji to my front door. And it even came with a free pistol shrimp! But yes, we used to call it the Berlin method of reef keeping.

Yes, the good 'ol days. My first piece of 'live rock' I ever saw/purchased had been air shipped from the Caribbean ($20, which was really expensive). It was by far the most spectacular piece I've ever seen being fully encrusted with life including 20+ types of sponges, many bryozoans, anemones, zoanthids, etc. Of course, most of the organisms didn't survive long term, but it was glorious for the first week or so.

Due to the writings of Peter Wilkens, the Berlin Aquarium Club and the 'Berlin Method' were popularized. But the contributions to the hobby at that time came from different sources in Europe that are not cited in the literature. Going way farther back, Indonesia in the late 1920's/early 1930s (long before Lee Chin Eng and his ground breaking article in the 1960s) had true reef aquariums with live coral on display.

But that’s what happens when there is money to be made on misinformation.

Certainly. A good example of the misinformation part is when people mistakenly think that adding bottled bacteria regularly to an established reef aquarium is needed as an 'insurance policy'. Likely no harm done, but certainly not necessary.