So my clowns seem to get ich every other week. Would too high of nitrates cause this? My nitrates levels are 2ppm ammonia is at straight 0 salinity is 1.023 ish temp is 76 degrees. All my corals and nem seem to be doing really well. What do you guys think?
Clowns getting ich
- Thread starter Jaag
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Duke4Life
Just a crazy eel guy, LMAS
If these were never put through qt, nothing you do will ever totally rid. Fish diseases don't affect coral but they can harbor the eggs.
I'd pull the fish and run through qt and allow your tank to go fallow for 76 days to Totally rid.
I'd pull the fish and run through qt and allow your tank to go fallow for 76 days to Totally rid.
That nitrate level would have no impact, many hobbyist's tanks have much higher levels of nitrates.
Does the affliction look like grains of salt on the body of the fish? Can you please post an image of the clowns when they appear symptomatic, appearance of white spots.
Does the affliction look like grains of salt on the body of the fish? Can you please post an image of the clowns when they appear symptomatic, appearance of white spots.
NewbieSeth
Community Member
Through my personal experience with ich and tons of research I will say that ich has a life cycle. You see white spots where the parasite is eating the flesh, it falls off and reproduces in the sand and then comes back to the fish. It's not that it's going away, just going through its usual cycle. Think of it this way, there are 10 parasites on fish, they fall off, reproduce and then a few days later you have 100, then they fall off and reproduce and now you have 1000. I would get the fish out immediately. Eventually there will be so many parasites he will just die. You need to leave the fish out of the system for the 76 days as they cannot survive without a fish host and that will allow time for all of the "eggs" to hatch, not find a host and die. Otherwise you will start finding dead fish. Happened to me. Lost about $200 worth of fish
Squirrel_reefer
Call me Squirrel
yank your fish ASAP, you can setup a 10g QT tank for under 50$ including tank. ICH only effects fish, inverts and corals show no signs.
Remember ICH is caused by stress above all else, and most times a fish can actually have ICH and not be symptomatic. My LFS equated it to a cold, if you're happy, well fed and stress free you tend not to get sick very easily. but if you're stressed all the time you will probably catch a lot of colds/sniffles etc.
Remember ICH is caused by stress above all else, and most times a fish can actually have ICH and not be symptomatic. My LFS equated it to a cold, if you're happy, well fed and stress free you tend not to get sick very easily. but if you're stressed all the time you will probably catch a lot of colds/sniffles etc.
Squirrel_reefer
Call me Squirrel
dont use a substrate in your QT, just put some PVC pipe in there so they have a hiding place, then treat with copper medicine, no activated carbon in filters. done.
Empress
Valuable Member
Copper will kill the parasites during their free-swimming stage. Or you could try TTM if you're sure it's ich and not velvet. With TTM you won't need copper. But TTM won't kill velvet. Copper kills both.
melypr1985
totally addicted
Copper: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly Uronema marinum
How To Treat - First, it is important to know what kind of copper you are using. Cupramine is fully charged (ionic) copper, and has a therapeutic range of 0.35-0.5 mg/L or ppm. You would use a Seachem or Salifert copper test kit for Cupramine, as those are capable of reading copper in the low range. Coppersafe, on the other hand, is chelated copper. It has a much higher therapeutic range of 1.5-2.0 mg/L or ppm. As such, you need a “total copper test kit” such as API’s to measure Coppersafe.
Standard copper treatment lasts 30 consecutive days. The reason it takes so long is copper only targets the “free swimming stage” (the same holds true for all chemical treatments & hypo). While 7-14 days is the “norm” to reach this stage, certain strains of ich have prolonged life cycles. Indeed, even 30 days may not be long enough in some rare cases. This is why it is so important to observe after treatment ends, to ensure symptoms do not return.
Therapeutic copper levels must be maintained at all times during the 30 days, so testing often is important. If the level drops even slightly out of range, then the 30 day clock starts all over again. One reason your copper level may drop unexpectedly is if you are treating in a tank with rock and substrate; those should not be used in the presence of copper due to absorption. Conversely, if you exceed the therapeutic range you risk killing the fish.
Copper is a poison, pure and simple. It only works because most fish are able to withstand being in it longer than the parasites. Knowing this, it is wise to raise your copper level very slowly (over 3-5 days) instead of the usual 24-48 hours recommended on the labels. Doing so increases your odds of successfully treating a “copper sensitive” fish. Remove copper after 30 days by running activated carbon.
Pros - Readily available
Cons/Side Effects - Appetite suppression is a common side effect. If a fish stops eating, don’t add more copper until he resumes. If the fish is still not eating after 2-3 days, start doing water changes (lowering the copper concentration) until he eats. If this happens a second time after you resume raising the copper, you’ll know you’ve encountered a “copper sensitive” fish and an alternative treatment should be used instead. Some species of fish, such as angels, puffers, lions and mandarins are notoriously difficult to treat with copper.
NewbieSeth
Community Member
What I did was put them in a quarantine with just pvc pipes and a hob filter with just floss in it. No media. Buy cupramine. It gives very detailed instructions on how to treat. I did the treatment and all fish survived and are doing very well
Paul B
10K Club member
Excellence Award
Reef Tank 365
Reef Of The Month
Article Contributor
Rock Pool Reef Keepers
I am not going to get into this ich controversy but a nitrate reading of 2 would not cause ich. Mine is 160 and my fish don't have ich, especially the 25 year olds.
melypr1985
totally addicted
^^^ Very true. Your nitrates didn't cause ick. Ick was introduced into your tank, it's always been there. You can't get rid of it completely without going fallow.
reefpat
New Member
If you decide to quarantine it's not just as simple as buying a filter and tank. You also have to consider keeping the maintenance and parameters stable in the quarantine tank during the duration of the treatment. Now you will have two tanks to look after! Here is a good thread that might be helpful. Good luck!
How to Quarantine
https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/How-to-Quarantine.189815/
How to Quarantine
https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/How-to-Quarantine.189815/
mcarroll
10K Club member
Two points usually not brought up in these posts...
Positive ID
Not every instance of white spots is ich.
If you elect to do an out-of-tank treatment, consider that it will be very stressful to the fish from the point to try to capture them until the moment they return to the tank to recuperate.
With this is mind, if you're going to go through the trouble and stress, confirm to the best of your ability what parasite/condition you're targeting.
mcarroll's Favorite Fish Links has lots of pertinent links to get you started, including a guide on microscopes that's probably not that great, but better than nothing. A $10 jeweler's loupe (or something similar) is supposed to be best for observation. Nothing fancy needed for parasites.
@Paul B has written a bit about this if you do some searching.
Health of the Fish
Increasing the health of the fish so they can successfully fight it off/obtain immunity is the best answer at this phase.
Make sure you can get that right – healthy fish are your real goal here.
Better food is often the answer. Live food such as black worms and white worms, newly-hatched brine shrimp, etc are the best. Frozen whole foods would be next-best. Blended foods are good, but I'd want to have some probiotics in the mix. The rest should be considered snacks.
Don't add any new fish until these guys have been healthy without issue for several months and you should be OK.
Positive ID
Not every instance of white spots is ich.
If you elect to do an out-of-tank treatment, consider that it will be very stressful to the fish from the point to try to capture them until the moment they return to the tank to recuperate.
With this is mind, if you're going to go through the trouble and stress, confirm to the best of your ability what parasite/condition you're targeting.
mcarroll's Favorite Fish Links has lots of pertinent links to get you started, including a guide on microscopes that's probably not that great, but better than nothing. A $10 jeweler's loupe (or something similar) is supposed to be best for observation. Nothing fancy needed for parasites.
@Paul B has written a bit about this if you do some searching.
Health of the Fish
Increasing the health of the fish so they can successfully fight it off/obtain immunity is the best answer at this phase.
Make sure you can get that right – healthy fish are your real goal here.
Better food is often the answer. Live food such as black worms and white worms, newly-hatched brine shrimp, etc are the best. Frozen whole foods would be next-best. Blended foods are good, but I'd want to have some probiotics in the mix. The rest should be considered snacks.
Don't add any new fish until these guys have been healthy without issue for several months and you should be OK.
Last edited:
Two points usually not brought up in these posts...
Positive ID
Not every instance of white spots is ich.
If you elect to do an out-of-tank treatment, consider that it will be very stressful to the fish from the point to try to capture them until the moment they return to the tank to recuperate.
With this is mind, if you're going to go through the trouble and stress, confirm to the best of your ability what parasite/condition you're targeting.
mcarroll's Favorite Fish Links has lots of pertinent links to get you started, including a guide on microscopes that's probably not that great, but better than nothing. A $10 jeweler's loupe (or something similar) is supposed to be best for observation. Nothing fancy needed for parasites.
@Paul B has written a bit about this if you do some searching.
Health of the Fish
Increasing the health of the fish so they can successfully fight it off/obtain immunity is the best answer at this phase.
Make sure you can get that right – healthy fish are your real goal here.
Better food is often the answer. Live food such as black worms and white worms, newly-hatched brine shrimp, etc are the best. Frozen whole foods would be next-best. Blended foods are good, but I'd want to have some probiotics in the mix. The rest should be considered snacks.
Don't add any new fish until these guys have been healthy without issue for several months and you should be OK.
Do you believe that feeding more often helps them have a strong immune system?
mcarroll
10K Club member
Frequency of feeding does matter, but more for other fish than thick-bodied fish like clowns. What's more-important to every fish is the quality of food.
I have never done white worms myself. My local wholesaler carried black worms when I worked at the local (now-defunct) reef shop. You can also order them online if nobody local can get them. Ask around locally to see if someone already carries them first – or even if they'd be willing to if they do not currently.
If you have to order online it's a slightly bigger commitment to get started....nicer if you can at least have an idea what a blackworms are like before going big.
@Paul B has done both types of worms (and then some) and has a nice design for a blackworm keeper!
