Considering taking the dive...

mikecfry · Aug 17, 2016

Hi everyone,

As the title suggests, I'm considering making the jump into the ST world. I've kept FW tanks for more years than I can remember, a lot of that time with South American species (p. Ternatzi, s. Brandtii, A. Rivulatus). About 3 years back I took down my lone remaining tank (90g Africans) in preparation for movingand have been out of the hobby since. We're now settled in the new house and my kids are pushing to get a tank back up, and SW is on the radar for the first time.

We'll be using the same 90g tank (glass, not drilled). I'm looking at a canister filter. I know sumps are the consensus favorite but not in the plan right now. This would be fish only, possibly live rock, and a community / semi-aggressive stock. I'm hoping to get some feedback on stocking options and if there are any tips based on the planned setup now I should consider. Also have a few fish we are considering and it's difficult to get a clear idea on compatibility, so I'd love any tips here as well:

Ocellaris Clowns
Blue Tang
Yellow Tang
Watchman Goby
Stars and Stripes puffer
Nassau Tang
Maybe a rectangulus trigger although thinking too agressive?

This is just an early list based on preferences but would love to hear some feedback / suggestions. A 90g being pretty deep I'd love to find some swimmers for different levels too.

Thanks in advance!
Mike

Salty1962 · Aug 18, 2016

Welcome to R2R! Your at the right spot for feedback!
You probably only need to go with one tang. Three in a tank that size could be trouble

Your correct about the trigger, it will be aggressive. With a FOWLR you don't need to worry abut a sump unless you want to hide your equipment. Just keep up on your WCs. Good Luck!

domination2580 · Aug 18, 2016

mikecfry said:
Hi everyone,

As the title suggests, I'm considering making the jump into the ST world. I've kept FW tanks for more years than I can remember, a lot of that time with South American species (p. Ternatzi, s. Brandtii, A. Rivulatus). About 3 years back I took down my lone remaining tank (90g Africans) in preparation for movingand have been out of the hobby since. We're now settled in the new house and my kids are pushing to get a tank back up, and SW is on the radar for the first time.

We'll be using the same 90g tank (glass, not drilled). I'm looking at a canister filter. I know sumps are the consensus favorite but not in the plan right now. This would be fish only, possibly live rock, and a community / semi-aggressive stock. I'm hoping to get some feedback on stocking options and if there are any tips based on the planned setup now I should consider. Also have a few fish we are considering and it's difficult to get a clear idea on compatibility, so I'd love any tips here as well:

Ocellaris Clowns
Blue Tang
Yellow Tang
Watchman Goby
Stars and Stripes puffer
Nassau Tang
Maybe a rectangulus trigger although thinking too agressive?

This is just an early list based on preferences but would love to hear some feedback / suggestions. A 90g being pretty deep I'd love to find some swimmers for different levels too.

Thanks in advance!
Mike

Just to add in, a canister filter can be done but it does require a lot of maintenence. I personally would go with a good skimmer and no need for a filter. Easier, and more effective

TaylorPilot · Aug 18, 2016

They make hang-on-back overflows. They are not as ideal as a drilled overflow, but they work. That and a petco 29 gallon ($/gallon sale) tank is all you need. You can put all your equipment in the bottom and build it up slowly. It wouldn't be very expensive and would be light years better than a canister filter. Plus you can get it going, then in a month or two save up for a skimmer, then an ATO, and on and on.....LOL Welcome to Reef2Reef!

mikecfry · Aug 18, 2016

Salty1962 said:
Welcome to R2R! Your at the right spot for feedback!
You probably only need to go with one tang. Three in a tank that size could be trouble Your correct about the trigger, it will be aggressive. With a FOWLR you don't need to worry abut a sump unless you want to hide your equipment. Just keep up on your WCs. Good Luck!

Thanks for the great feedback! Can you suggest any other tank mates? Do invertebrates add any additional complexity (shrimp, starfish, crabs) that I'm not thinking about? I know invertebrates with puffers is usually a no-go, but again this is a pretty early list and just want to learn what I can.

mikecfry · Aug 18, 2016

domination2580 said:
Just to add in, a canister filter can be done but it does require a lot of maintenence. I personally would go with a good skimmer and no need for a filter. Easier, and more effective

Thanks, I didn't realize a good skimmer would make such a difference. I assume this is contngent on a high volume of live rock, correct? If we go that route (live rock) I was only thinking to do maybe 30 lbs or so not a full 90 to match the tank volume.

Are there skimmers that can sit below the tank similar to a cannister but not in a sump? Trying to avoid anything hanging on the back to keep the tank closer to the wall.

TaylorPilot said:
They make hang-on-back overflows. They are not as ideal as a drilled overflow, but they work. That and a petco 29 gallon ($/gallon sale) tank is all you need. You can put all your equipment in the bottom and build it up slowly. It wouldn't be very expensive and would be light years better than a canister filter. Plus you can get it going, then in a month or two save up for a skimmer, then an ATO, and on and on.....LOL Welcome to Reef2Reef!

I guess I should do some research on building my own sump. I'm a pretty handy guy and I have a few old 20g and 10g tanks laying around. This is more a case of my ignorance on the topic intimidating me away from it.

domination2580 · Aug 18, 2016

There are skimmera that can be in the sump, or could hang on side

mikecfry · Aug 18, 2016

At the risk of overthinking this whole thing.... My tank isn't drilled and I'm pretty sure the sides are tempered, if I want to avoid a HOB overflow, could I use the canister as a first stage of filtration, then use a small tank as a sump to hold a skimmer, heater and a return pump?

I really appreciate all the help! A lot of forums have a pretty harsh crowd for new folks asking "dumb" questions. The positive attitudes I'm finding here as read around are great!

TaylorPilot · Aug 18, 2016

No. You have to have everything gravity fed because it's impossible to match pump flows.

mikecfry · Aug 18, 2016

TaylorPilot said:
No. You have to have everything gravity fed because it's impossible to match pump flows.

Makes sense. Wishing I had a drilled tank right about now!

TaylorPilot · Aug 18, 2016

Then drill it! It's allot easier than people think. What brand tank is it?

mikecfry · Aug 18, 2016

I think it's All Glass - I'm honestly not sure I've had it for probably 15 years. I believe it's all tempered though...

Salty1962 · Aug 18, 2016

Check with your manufacture and see if the bottom or back is not tempered.

mikecfry · Aug 18, 2016

I'll look into it. I'm positive the bottom is tempered - do not drill sticker and all. I'm not sure about the back though.

Bob Escher · Aug 18, 2016

mikecfry said:
Hi everyone,

As the title suggests, I'm considering making the jump into the ST world. I've kept FW tanks for more years than I can remember, a lot of that time with South American species (p. Ternatzi, s. Brandtii, A. Rivulatus). About 3 years back I took down my lone remaining tank (90g Africans) in preparation for movingand have been out of the hobby since. We're now settled in the new house and my kids are pushing to get a tank back up, and SW is on the radar for the first time.

We'll be using the same 90g tank (glass, not drilled). I'm looking at a canister filter. I know sumps are the consensus favorite but not in the plan right now. This would be fish only, possibly live rock, and a community / semi-aggressive stock. I'm hoping to get some feedback on stocking options and if there are any tips based on the planned setup now I should consider. Also have a few fish we are considering and it's difficult to get a clear idea on compatibility, so I'd love any tips here as well:

Ocellaris Clowns
Blue Tang
Yellow Tang
Watchman Goby
Stars and Stripes puffer
Nassau Tang
Maybe a rectangulus trigger although thinking too agressive?

This is just an early list based on preferences but would love to hear some feedback / suggestions. A 90g being pretty deep I'd love to find some swimmers for different levels too.

Thanks in advance!
Mike

Welcome to REEFTOREEF as I guy that made the switch myself in January all I can say is your in the right place.
Buy a hang on the back overflow and get a sump
BE PATIENT you will need it
Take the advice of every one here roll it all into one, analyze it and use it to the best you can and ask and ask questions, no one bites

mikecfry · Aug 18, 2016

Thanks Bob. I'm leaning more and more towards using an old 20L I have to make a sump. Also considering just jumping in and drilling the tank. I got it out, cleaned it up and it looks like only the bottom is tempered.

My next question to figure out is live rock. I wasn't definitely going to do any, but with a sump am I correct in that the rock serves as the only biological filtration? Wondering how much I need to get, or can I get away with a few pounds that will then colonize other rock I add? Also is a skimmer a must then since there is no other source of mechanical filtration?

Bob Escher · Aug 18, 2016

No you also can have a filter sock as well. You can go on Amazon and find baffles and actually whole kits to make your own sump. In a sump is a general term. You have them with refugium so and without, you want one with where you can add live sand and live rock. Depending on the sump you can add chemical filtration as well. And yes I skimmer is ( should be) needed. A skimmer should be 1 1/2 times ( what size gallons of water your tank is) I have a 45 gallon JBJ AIO ( all in one) that I added a hang on overflow and a sump in the bottom of my tank
Take a look at my videos

Oops yes you can buy a few lbs of live rock and then buy dead rock and yes it will become live rock
The same with sand but best bet would be live sand feel free to ask more

mikecfry · Aug 19, 2016

How would you add chemical filtration in the sump?

Glad to hear a few pounds of live rock will seed other rock, trying now to blow the bank here. I'll start looking at skimmers, but is it fair to say I can get the tank up and running, cycling etc then add a skimmer in the near future? Any tips on economic, simple and quiet skimmers I should look at?

Bob Escher · Aug 19, 2016

There are several ways, some just add a bag into the are where the skimmer will be but mostly you will have a small section that's about 2 in wide. It normally has a foam sponge in their to help dissipate air bubbles. In there goes the chemical media in a bag. Yes you can get it up and running without a skimmer. Let's talk sand there are several methodologies for using sand. Some don't some have a shallow ( up to three in or less) and then deep deep is up to 5 in. There are pros and cons to all of them. No sand you can't have certain fish but easier to clean, some sand you can have those fish but you have to watch it and clean it so you don't have nitrate problems a deep sand bed is a better part of the filtration process but over time ( literally years) it get bad you still must clean it but very lightly so not to disturb it much
You can search on here for better examples of why

As far as skimmers for the size of the tank take a look at bubble magus curve 5's ( $200.00 but much cheaper on eBay) they're rated for your tank

But there's plenty more out there. For your size tank your really not going to get away with a " relatively cheap ( how relative is cheap to you) and HOB skimmers versus a in sump skimmer will be virtually the same price

Please ask anything more and research and research. Your tank will take a good while to cycle
There are various ways to do that. Buy some live rock and feed the tank small pieces of frozen shrimp or drop several drops of ammonia in it everyday. You can buy ( for example) RED SEA mature pro kits that have everything you need to get your tank going but it can be as much as 8 months to get fully matured ( not to say you can't put anything in it ( no corals just fish) of course every single tank is different
And you can have two tanks next to each other and they will be the same

Last but not least think of a Quarantine tank ( ten gallons) for quarantining fish ( again research here, there are videos out on YouTube as well) but a QT is a must
Have a great day

mikecfry · Aug 19, 2016

Great info, thank you! We dove right in today and got live sand, a bulkhead, salt etc. I'm planning to start the sump assembly tonight.

I'm planning to drill tomorrow and with a little luck get the tank filled. Next question. I have a 1" bulkhead I'm drilling a 45mm hole. What size return pump should I look for? Any suggested brands?

The LFS we are going to has a great stock including cure Fiji rock - 45lbs for $99, so we're going to get a load that and hopefully get a cycle started this weekend.