Copepod Seeding - Does Phyto Help?

[Skep18]

So I tossed in 1 jar of 5280 pods into my 225gal. I know that's all under the recommended amount. I figured it would still seed the tank into a solid population in due time. Algae Barn agreed but just said it might take longer, like 8 months, to see a real sustainable population. It's a pretty new tank and there's no predation yet. All this is not an issue, I'm just curious/impatient.

I have live phyto. Is it worthwhile to dose the DT in regards to getting returns on copepod population growth or am I just tossing stuff in to my skimmer? FWIW I turn the skimmer for an hour after dosing.

Alternatively In debating storing the phyto until I get some time to get more pods to cultivate in a smaller vessel then seed the tank (again). If dosing phyto to my DT is kinda a waste, I'll just hold onto it.

 

[DLHDesign]

Can't say for your tank specifically, but I feel like adding the phyto helped the pod population in my tank in the early days. I don't have anything to back that up, however - just my impressions at the time. My tank is now well seeded with all sorts of pods, so it worked out, at least...
When I added pods, I made sure to put them in the sump first. When adding the phyto, I'd turn off the return and skimmer, and dose it into the same area of the sump (my "rubble pile" area) and let it sit for ~10-20min. Then turn on the return, but delay the skimmer for ~1hr. I don't recall seeing my skimmer do anything unusual after, so I figured it was mostly getting consumed - or at least distributed throughout the tank.

 

[Skep18]

Can't say for your tank specifically, but I feel like adding the phyto helped the pod population in my tank in the early days. I don't have anything to back that up, however - just my impressions at the time. My tank is now well seeded with all sorts of pods, so it worked out, at least...
When I added pods, I made sure to put them in the sump first. When adding the phyto, I'd turn off the return and skimmer, and dose it into the same area of the sump (my "rubble pile" area) and let it sit for ~10-20min. Then turn on the return, but delay the skimmer for ~1hr. I don't recall seeing my skimmer do anything unusual after, so I figured it was mostly getting consumed - or at least distributed throughout the tank.

Yea, I didn't have my refugium setup at the time. Literally a couple days after I setup a rubble pile like you mentioned in it but obviously after the fact. I did dump them at night and over the major rock structure. I've also go special grade aragonite so I would assume its large enough for them to traverse through. I think the sand is my concession as to why I believe I will never see pods even if I do have them, lol. I feel like that might not be true but there's a lot of space to hide in there.

So how do you know you have pods now? I've seen them on videos but the ones I added were like SUPER small. Idk I would see them in the tank if there were in front of my face.

 

[DLHDesign]

I guess I couldn’t say that I KNOW I have a solid pod population, just that I suspect it to be so. I can see the larger amphipods scurrying about the sump - to the point where I’m no longer concerned about capturing them while cleaning filter socks. I’ve never added in amphipods without adding others, so I’m presuming that the other species are at least comparable. I suppose I could check with a microscope (which would likely be interesting), but I’ve not done so.

 

[Skep18]

I guess I couldn’t say that I KNOW I have a solid pod population, just that I suspect it to be so. I can see the larger amphipods scurrying about the sump - to the point where I’m no longer concerned about capturing them while cleaning filter socks. I’ve never added in amphipods without adding others, so I’m presuming that the other species are at least comparable. I suppose I could check with a microscope (which would likely be interesting), but I’ve not done so.

I apologize, I'm definitely not try to come at you or doubt you or anything. Just wondering some details. Your response seems valid.

Thanks for the insight!

 

[Bradley Keck]

I'm following your thread here. I have the same question. I have a 150g. Added 88# of cured pukani and 30# of pacific live rock(GMP). Let it sit for a week. Then purchased the same thing you did. I added about 3/4 of the pods to the DT and the rest to the refugium. I left my return off for an hour and didn't run the skimmer at all. After 4 days of dosing phyto, I checked my nitrate and phosphate. It had climbed from 12 and .62 to 26 and .84. I turned on my skimmer and stopped dosing the phyto. I am now backing down to dosing about every two days or so. When I dose, I don't run my skimmer for 24hours. After about a week of this, I could see pods sticking to my glass in the DT. Can't really see anything in the refugium to know for sure. I think the efficacy of phyto is split from what I have read. Some say it's a waste and others swear by it. I figure as long as it is not increasing my nitrate and phosphate, and I'm not just taking it back out with my skimmer, it cant hurt. I'll be curious to see what others have to say!

 

[Skep18]

I'm following your thread here. I have the same question. I have a 150g. Added 88# of cured pukani and 30# of pacific live rock(GMP). Let it sit for a week. Then purchased the same thing you did. I added about 3/4 of the pods to the DT and the rest to the refugium. I left my return off for an hour and didn't run the skimmer at all. After 4 days of dosing phyto, I checked my nitrate and phosphate. It had climbed from 12 and .62 to 26 and .84. I turned on my skimmer and stopped dosing the phyto. I am now backing down to dosing about every two days or so. When I dose, I don't run my skimmer for 24hours. After about a week of this, I could see pods sticking to my glass in the DT. Can't really see anything in the refugium to know for sure. I think the efficacy of phyto is split from what I have read. Some say it's a waste and others swear by it. I figure as long as it is not increasing my nitrate and phosphate, and I'm not just taking it back out with my skimmer, it cant hurt. I'll be curious to see what others have to say!

I'd say it's a good sign you're seeing them!

I've read the same about phyto. Tbh, I feel like I'm just dumping it in just cuz at this point. But I must keep the faith!

 

[Bradley Keck]

I'd say it's a good sign you're seeing them!

I've read the same about phyto. Tbh, I feel like I'm just dumping it in just cuz at this point. But I must keep the faith!

I hear you! Ya, not sure I will keep buying phyto or start culturing it, but thought it would maybe help get some biodiversity in my rock, and kind of help with adding some nutrients that could help cycle and mature the tank. I was going to just add a couple of crushed pellets of Hikari seaweed extreme every now and then, but thought I'll just use this instead. I like to watch the BRS video's, and on their ULM tanks they did the same thing we did, but I don't recall hearing anything specifically about how they thought it worked on the three tanks. I was hoping they might have a little insight into whether that was beneficial.

 

[alton]

When I first add pods to a tank I like to add Phyto to help out. But my best pod population is in tanks that house larger fish that do not eat them but create waste for them to thrive on (Hopefully you can see all the pod eggs on the back of this tank?

 

[Skep18]

I hear you! Ya, not sure I will keep buying phyto or start culturing it, but thought it would maybe help get some biodiversity in my rock, and kind of help with adding some nutrients that could help cycle and mature the tank. I was going to just add a couple of crushed pellets of Hikari seaweed extreme every now and then, but thought I'll just use this instead. I like to watch the BRS video's, and on their ULM tanks they did the same thing we did, but I don't recall hearing anything specifically about how they thought it worked on the three tanks. I was hoping they might have a little insight into whether that was beneficial.

I saw one person did make a point that dosing phyto to pods made pods more nutritious for Mandarins.

Wait, did BRS just seed pods or did they dose phyto too?

 

[Skep18]

When I first add pods to a tank I like to add Phyto to help out. But my best pod population is in tanks that house larger fish that do not eat them but create waste for them to thrive on (Hopefully you can see all the pod eggs on the back of this tank?

I'm on my phone at the moment so not much luck seeing pod eggs but that's def gotta be a good sign of a healthy population. Right now in my DT I don't even have any inverts to feed on them let alone predator fish. Fingers crossed!

 

[Bradley Keck]

I saw one person did make a point that dosing phyto to pods made pods more nutritious for Mandarins.

Wait, did BRS just seed pods or did they dose phyto too?

Well, I thought they got a package of phyto, pods, and chaeto, from Algae Barn, but I could be wrong. I thought I remember Ryan from BRS saying that he had never dosed phyto before, but they were going to try it.

 

[hollback]

I've had the same copepod cultures going steady since 2004. I culture phytoplankton as their only source of food. IME, you would need to add a lot of phyto to make the culture explode. I keep my culture tanks Hulk green with phyto. Doing this in a display would not work. I'm adding phyto to a display helps feed the pod population but it's not going to make it explode. You would have much better luck culturing copepods separately with phyto, collecting them with mircon screen, and adding them to your display.

 

[redpine42]

So I tossed in 1 jar of 5280 pods into my 225gal. I know that's all under the recommended amount. I figured it would still seed the tank into a solid population in due time. Algae Barn agreed but just said it might take longer, like 8 months, to see a real sustainable population. It's a pretty new tank and there's no predation yet. All this is not an issue, I'm just curious/impatient.

I have live phyto. Is it worthwhile to dose the DT in regards to getting returns on copepod population growth or am I just tossing stuff in to my skimmer? FWIW I turn the skimmer for an hour after dosing.

Alternatively In debating storing the phyto until I get some time to get more pods to cultivate in a smaller vessel then seed the tank (again). If dosing phyto to my DT is kinda a waste, I'll just hold onto it.

My pod population got huge with daily dosing of phyto, both in the sump and DT. When I stopped, they declined either because of the loss of phyto or me daily scraping the glass, not really sure. Started dosing phyto again, so we'll see if it gets going again.

 

[DLHDesign]

I apologize, I'm definitely not try to come at you or doubt you or anything. Just wondering some details. Your response seems valid.

Oh; no worries - didn't read it that way at all.

All I have is anecdotal. SO many variables involved; hard to say what will happen in any tank...

 

[Skep18]

I've had the same copepod cultures going steady since 2004. I culture phytoplankton as their only source of food. IME, you would need to add a lot of phyto to make the culture explode. I keep my culture tanks Hulk green with phyto. Doing this in a display would not work. I'm adding phyto to a display helps feed the pod population but it's not going to make it explode. You would have much better luck culturing copepods separately with phyto, collecting them with mircon screen, and adding them to your display.

Lol, i literally almost posted on your thread for some of your pods yesterday right before you said you were out.

Yea, I suspect any really cultivation should only be expected to be done in a controlled environment. Nonetheless, it does seem many get pods eventually even if on accident. At this point I'm sure it's anecdotal if anything helps the DT along.

Still debating if I keep dosing or wait to cultivate and save my phyto... Lol

 

[Katrina71]

@hollback dumb this down for me a bit. Are you saying phyto in your DT is not going to matter? Basically let them watch cable and see if they get freaky?

 

[hollback]

To clarify, I do think dosing phytoplankton in a display helps promote copepods growth. The issue is the small margin of error. A little too much phtyo and as it crashes your nutrient levels will rise. I would just rely on your fish & coral poop and excess food to feed the diatom/copepods. Most struggle to keep nutrients down and adding phyto only makes this more challenging.

 

[hollback]

A good way to gauge your copepod population in your display is to wait for the lights to be off for a few hours. Then look along the silicon in the top and bottom corners of your glass. They will collect here after the predators (fish) are asleep. This doesn't give you a count of what the population is but you can tell if the population is growing or shrinking based on the numbers in the corners.

 

[dwest]

So I tossed in 1 jar of 5280 pods into my 225gal. I know that's all under the recommended amount. I figured it would still seed the tank into a solid population in due time. Algae Barn agreed but just said it might take longer, like 8 months, to see a real sustainable population. It's a pretty new tank and there's no predation yet. All this is not an issue, I'm just curious/impatient.

I have live phyto. Is it worthwhile to dose the DT in regards to getting returns on copepod population growth or am I just tossing stuff in to my skimmer? FWIW I turn the skimmer for an hour after dosing.

Alternatively In debating storing the phyto until I get some time to get more pods to cultivate in a smaller vessel then seed the tank (again). If dosing phyto to my DT is kinda a waste, I'll just hold onto it.

IME the most important thing to do is give them undisturbed surface area.