Cycling help

[Rick's Reviews]

I normally dont get involved when different members say harsh things to one another but,
I feel that i have to stand up for @brandon429

There is a reason why he is referred to as the "cycle guru"

Few facts to consider....Look at his number of posts. Number of reaction scores. Then click on his avatar....locate the all posts section....then scroll through the endless sea of post almost all pertaining to the science of cycling a sea water tank and everything that goes along with it. Still have your doubts......READ through his posts, comments and dialogs between himself and other fellow members......and then maybe rethink your harsh statement of post number 9.

Just a question....@Rick's Reviews what scientific back ground and experiences do you have in the field of marine micro biology???

@rowenaad out of my personal experience, your tank is cycled. Just do a, as close to as possible 100% water change and add live stock slowly so that your newly established bio filter can keep up with the changing bio loads.

PS, i have started and cycled 7 reef tanks since early 2007. Cycling times ranging from 6 weeks to the most recent one which was three weeks ago with the help from @brandon429 which was a forced cycle through hyper seeding in an extreme emergency and the tank was cycled in basically 30 hrs.

To be honest my background compared to Brandon is not the issue here for me, I appreciate Brandon's advice and knowledge along with many others... I will definitely look at Brandon's post if I need a scientific breakdown! the problem for me is that the knowledge is overwhelming especially when a person posts 'new to saltwater'. Brandon's posts are just too much to understand when you just need a simple answer, I have not questioned knowledge of anyone, I question the advice given to a simple matter, especially when advice given by Brandon to throw in a fish and see how it survives? That advice by even Steven hawking will be questioned, your input and p.s does not Answer nothing @Evo R , as a new person to the reef2reef... How would you perceive this..... for me I think I would look elsewhere for a more normal answer and reasurance

 

[brandon429]

Rick

I knew asking for one example of a dead cycle with dead fish from the two million cycles logged on google was not going to produce a link, it’s just a helpful degree of effort to ask from procedural critics

I provide specific aquarium links to show the safe patterning, it’s fair to request the bad outcome to see if it even happens

of course I don’t mind if OP waits arbitrary number days more

but it’s better science to pick a clean start date based on prior patterning, this tank isn’t the first it’s part of a succession


don’t feel bad about not being able to find an example link of a fish in cycle that failed. I don’t know of any either. It was a loaded request when I made it. Choosing an ethical start date for a reef tank is this years hot button topic for sure

 

[brandon429]

It’s also a good counter balance in the hobby to have patient start date proponents where waiting is the default mode

provides important counter balance so that unethical starts won’t become harmful to fish


but we need a middle ground, threads like this allow for that discovery


my rationale was his tank above is exactly like the others we were able to get started, it really didn’t seem a risk to me given that he used instant bioload carry bacteria plus ample deposition time


as we tried to search for that dead cycle with dead fish example on google and couldn’t find any, or two, among two million, that shows how well bottle bac works

the only examples of a failed cycle are non digital test kits that on other threads were shown to misread, more than once. We can find threads of those.

I realize his test kit doesn’t agree but that’s how it always goes down


he was charged for maximum ten day bac, said by the guy that made it. He waited double the time.

 

[jgirardnrg]

@brandon429 I think you're glazing over what @Rick's Reviews is trying to say. In fact, in the post above yours he even said he appreciated your advice and expertise. I think he's just trying to say that sometimes simple questions need simple answers. Throwing 500 pages of articles at someone asking for advice about a stuck cycle might have been better served with a short concise answer here.

Now, having said all of that, @rowenaad... Today is day 21 of a 30 day start up routine, no? Why not wait the week and see where you end up before dumping in fish or doing massive water changes?

 

[Rick's Reviews]

You are very apparently very

Rick

I knew asking for one example of a dead cycle with dead fish from the two million cycles logged on google was not going to produce a link, it’s just a helpful degree of effort to ask from procedural critics

I provide specific aquarium links to show the safe patterning, it’s fair to request the bad outcome from risk purveyors.

of course I don’t mind if OP waits arbitrary number days more

but it’s better science to pick a clean start date based on prior patterning, this tank isn’t the first it’s part of a succession


don’t feel bad about not being able to find an example link of a fish in cycle that failed. I don’t know of any either. It was a loaded request when I made it. Choosing an ethical start date for a reef tank is this years hot button topic for sure

Apparently you are very knowledgeable? , but the advice given is very confusing, misleading and definitely not easy to understand and also wrong on this occasion.
I have read many of your posts and I do not question any of this however the advice you provide in this instance is wrong hence why I advised otherwise. You do not under any circumstances use any marine life to test water parimaters!!! If you want to talk science feel free but your an idiot for advising using livestock 'to test' water!!

I told you this is not a dick off, the above explains why I reacted to this comment alongside my posts.
Anyone that provides false, mistreatment of livestock, potentially damaging to marine life I will question and report...

 

[Rick's Reviews]

@brandon429 I think you're glazing over what @Rick's Reviews is trying to say. In fact, in the post above yours he even said he appreciated your advice and expertise. I think he's just trying to say that sometimes simple questions need simple answers. Throwing 500 pages of articles at someone asking for advice about a stuck cycle might have been better served with a short concise answer here.

Now, having said all of that, @rowenaad... Today is day 21 of a 30 day start up routine, no? Why not wait the week and see where you end up before dumping in fish or doing massive water changes?

Thank you

 

[Rick's Reviews]

@brandon429 I think you're glazing over what @Rick's Reviews is trying to say. In fact, in the post above yours he even said he appreciated your advice and expertise. I think he's just trying to say that sometimes simple questions need simple answers. Throwing 500 pages of articles at someone asking for advice about a stuck cycle might have been better served with a short concise answer here.

Now, having said all of that, @rowenaad... Today is day 21 of a 30 day start up routine, no? Why not wait the week and see where you end up before dumping in fish or doing massive water changes?

Thank you

 

[brandon429]

I gave a specific start date for the thread writer. Rick disagrees and I never got a different start date from him. Open ended is safe from inspection

The disagreeing party (s) can help by showing if its easy or hard to find times twenty day bottle bac setups didn’t work. nobody is flooding with links, I only requested one. Can you help Rick find that sole example pls @jgirardnrg



what if the start date named is right, neither of you gave that a chance / fair food for thought


I’m simply interested in studying failed cycles, asking cycle umps to show broken ones should be par for the course in information trading


but if all attempted bottle bac cycles completed, and none stalled, it helps us here to know that. He wants a legit start date, that’s the fundamental request.

 

[Garf]

Thanks. I have read the "How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle" thread as well but thought my situation is different. I understand it has gone thru 2 complete cycles as i have nitrate but i fail to understand why the bacteria isn't processing added ammonia after the first cycle and also why the bacteria stops doing anything after the day i add the bottle of bac. Its hard to believe thats all bad readings cuz they were pretty consistent and kinda make sense in a way if i have bad water?

This is a pic of my tank. Theres about 8.5kg/18.7lb rock and 6 marine pure biofilter cube (2" each) in the back chamber. At this point, should I wait for a few more days or do a 100% water change and get a pair of clown?

A pinch of crushed flake food may speed things along. It adds a bit of the all important phosphate with a bit of carbon. Stick a photo of a fish on the front of the tank, and feed it

 

[jgirardnrg]

I gave a specific start date for the thread writer. Rick disagrees and I never got a different start date from him. Open ended is safe from inspection

The disagreeing party (s) can help by showing if its easy or hard to find times twenty day bottle bac setups didn’t work. nobody is flooding with links, I only requested one. Can you help Rick find that sole example pls @jgirardnrg



what if the start date named is right, neither of you gave that a chance / fair food for thought

I am not going to even entertain the thought of going down that rabbit hole with you Brandon... not my monkeys, not my circus.

 

[brandon429]

I’m going to watch dune.

If there aren’t three or four links from basic cycle fails with dead fish when I get back…..


















































then I’m going to wait longer.

 

[jgirardnrg]

I’m going to watch dune.

If there aren’t three or four links from basic cycle fails with dead fish when I get back…..


















































then I’m going to wait longer.

Read above... enjoy your movie.

 

[Rick's Reviews]

Dr Tim's Ammonium chloride helped cycle my aquriam in February, as your aquarium is fishless it is easy to monitor

 

[Rick's Reviews]

I’m going to watch dune.

If there aren’t three or four links from basic cycle fails with dead fish when I get back…..


















































then I’m going to wait longer.

82 dune or new both as good

 

[mike89t]

Did you use "live" sand or just dry sand? Live wet sand will have bacteria in it but it is a dormant strain that takes longer to cycle.

I'm not familiar with with Aquarium Systems Start Your Tank. I'm assuming it's some form of bottled bacteria?

Dr Tims One and Only has a shelf life of about 8 months. So it is possible that it may have expired. Impossible to tell without a date on the bottle.



With that said:

I think the first 15 days you had a bunch of dry rock soaking in salt water with nothing for the bacteria to feed on. So your cycle didn't really start till day 16 when you added the Dr Tim's Ammonia Chloride.

That would mean that you are only about a week into your cycle. You should be seeing a huge spike in Nitrite soon if you haven't already. Note that the bacteria that converts Nitrite to Nitrate are even slower at multiplying so your Nitrite levels may stay high for a while.

Also don't bother measuring for Nitrate till your Nitrite has gone up and fully come down. The excess Nitrite will throw off your Nitrate test.

 

[jgirardnrg]

I had a look at the directions for what was used and it states you add fish on day 2. It was decided to go fishless, so on day 2 ammonia should have been added to feed the bacteria to take the place of the fish.

 

[Garf]

I had a look at the directions for what was used and it states you add fish on day 2. It was decided to go fishless, so on day 2 ammonia should have been added to feed the bacteria to take the place of the fish.

Suggests fish food, to me, if not adding fish. He added ammonia 5 days ago.

 

[jgirardnrg]

Suggests fish food, to me, if not adding fish. He added ammonia 5 days ago.

Well sure, any source of ammonia. I'm guessing that's why the system used suggests fish on day 2. To get a source of ammonia in the tank. By not doing this the cycle has probably been set back a week or two.

I use my own system for cycling tanks and fish go in on day 8 or 9. Ammonia is usually gone on day 7. I dose to 2ppm and wait 24 hours and it's usually back to zero... time for fish. I use a combination of Prodibio Startup and Biospira and Dr Tims ammonia for my method.

 

[rowenaad]

Thanks guys. The dose i used on day one is ideal for with fish cycle but i have read people with success using it in fishless with no other added ammonia which made me think some doses contain ammonia, but i couldnt find the source anymore. maybe i misread....but the hint of nitrate means there has been ammonia in there? maybe a bad rock or tank water i used to wash the sand (its dry sand @mike89t) but its rinsed with rodi water as the last step

I wont have the time to prep sw, do wc and add fish altogether in the next few days, so that sets me to late next week anyway. even if the cycle is actually started on day 16, by the end of next week it passes the instructed date on dr tims recipe. I think thats gonna be a safe move for fish at that time anyway.

Besides, i just grabbed the seneye monitor and hanna checkers lolll my eyes burnt reading colors. im also curious to see what seneye tells, but idk if its gonna do any good with high ammonia ranges cuz the manual says up to 0.5ppm

 

[Garf]

That's free ammonia though, so that'll be about 5ppm total ammonia, should be plenty.