Did I overreact?

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

No abnormal breathing on any other fish. All fish are eating well, including the Gramma. He does look beaten up but I've never seen any aggression in the tank. I'm used to keeping Malawi cichlids so I've seen my share of aggression over the years

Marine aggression can be pretty subtle and may only occur when you aren’t in the room.
A few other issues can give fish a bedraggled look, that is easily mistaken for aggression - but most of those would show up in more than just one fish…..sorry, I’m stumped!

Jay

 

[ErikVR]

Marine aggression can be pretty subtle and may only occur when you aren’t in the room.
A few other issues can give fish a bedraggled look, that is easily mistaken for aggression - but most of those would show up in more than just one fish…..sorry, I’m stumped!

Jay

He used to be pretty fierce about defending his little spot. 'Screaming' at other fish swimming by but never making any physical contact. He's not in that spot anymore so maybe there was a physical confrontation that I didn't see. If it's just damage then he should heal.

 

[ErikVR]

My theory right now is that he got into an argument with my valenciennea strigata goby. He's the only guy in the tank that can do that kind of damage to the gramma and the goby has been in hiding for a few days now.

Another thing I noticed is my blue tang rubbing against the rocks. He does it only on one side and a few times per hour. Could he be bothered by the change in salinity or maybe some irritation left by the ich he had last week?

Video

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

My theory right now is that he got into an argument with my valenciennea strigata goby. He's the only guy in the tank that can do that kind of damage to the gramma and the goby has been in hiding for a few days now.

Another thing I noticed is my blue tang rubbing against the rocks. He does it only on one side and a few times per hour. Could he be bothered by the change in salinity or maybe some irritation left by the ich he had last week?

Video

It could be behavioral, or it could be residual flukes. There really isn’t much else you can do but to continue the hyposalinity.
Jay

 

[Icryhard]

My theory right now is that he got into an argument with my valenciennea strigata goby. He's the only guy in the tank that can do that kind of damage to the gramma and the goby has been in hiding for a few days now.

Another thing I noticed is my blue tang rubbing against the rocks. He does it only on one side and a few times per hour. Could he be bothered by the change in salinity or maybe some irritation left by the ich he had last week?

Video

I think it’s the itch. As long as they’re eating good, staying fatty and you keep on actively battling the itch it’ll overcome it. Keep an eye on your gramma and maybe if you can try to remove it and QT it so it can heal up.

 

[ErikVR]

The Gramma is actually doing much better now. No more heavy breathing and he's aggressively going after food and defending his usual territory again.

The blue isn't rubbing anymore and the powerbrown looks healthy. It's safe to say that the hypo treatment is working. Should have done that straight away...

The goby is still missing. Which is weird because he's a big boy and went from sifting sand all day and eating frozen foods from the water column, to completely vanishing overnight. Is it usual for a goby to hide for multiple days? (No he's not on the floor)

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

The Gramma is actually doing much better now. No more heavy breathing and he's aggressively going after food and defending his usual territory again.

The blue isn't rubbing anymore and the powerbrown looks healthy. It's safe to say that the hypo treatment is working. Should have done that straight away...

The goby is still missing. Which is weird because he's a big boy and went from sifting sand all day and eating frozen foods from the water column, to completely vanishing overnight. Is it usual for a goby to hide for multiple days? (No he's not on the floor)

Good to hear the gramma has improved.

The goby could be dead under a rock, it is not a good sign that it has been missing that long. Fish that jump out can also flop across the floor for some distance from the tank though.

Jay

 

[ErikVR]

Good to hear the gramma has improved.

The goby could be dead under a rock, it is not a good sign that it has been missing that long. Fish that jump out can also flop across the floor for some distance from the tank though.

Jay

Oh dang the poor guy is on the floor and has been for a while. About a meter and a half away from the tank under a small cabinet I didn't think that they would be anywhere else than directly around the tank.

The store said they never jump. Was careful to not pick jumpers without a lid... Second loss in only 3 months. One non-eater and now a jumper. The tank looks so good without a lid but I guess I need a mesh top.

 

[hunterallen40]

Oh dang the poor guy is on the floor and has been for a while.

Sorry for your loss. That is such sad way to lose one...

The store said they never jump.

I'm not sure why they would say that... Gobys are famous for it.

The tank looks so good without a lid but I guess I need a mesh top.

I hear you, but I 100% recommend a mesh top. The only system I have that doesn't have a lid on it is my fishless frag tank, and I still made a mesh lid for it anyway...

The red sea DIY kit is actually really simple to use. I got it set up for the frag tank with lighting cutouts in about an hour of errort. You could do something cheaper with egg crate, but the clear netting is preferable IMHO.

Again, so sorry for your loss... I hate losing a fish like that. I had a discus jump through the small space between the glass lid and the back of the tank (about 2")... Was an awful surprise in the morning.

 

[ErikVR]

Live and learn I guess. I looked at the red sea screens when I purchased the tank and decided to avoid jumpers instead. It's disappointing to read that gobys are jumpers. They told me that of course all fish can jump in a scare but that the goby wasn't know to jump at all. I'll definitely confront them with this.

Just ordered the screen so that this mistake won't happen again. I'm sad this fun guy was the victim of my learning process...

This thread is turning into a 'Help a Dutch guy survive his first six month in the saltwater hobby' conversation

 

[hunterallen40]

Just ordered the screen so that this mistake won't happen again. I'm sad this fun guy was the victim of my learning process...

That's great to hear!

I wouldn't be too hard on yourself. It really is a hard pill to swallow, but I'm sure you will not be letting this happen again.

 

[ErikVR]

I'm noticing some strange marks on the blue tang. They look like small bumps.

He's eating and behaving just fine but looks a bit rough. Is this scarring from the ich?

It's hard to take decent pictures because he's moving too fast.

Video

 

[Icryhard]

I'm noticing some strange marks on the blue tang. They look like small bumps.

He's eating and behaving just fine but looks a bit rough. Is this scarring from the ich?

It's hard to take decent pictures because he's moving too fast.

Video

Difficult to see, but still looks like itch. It won't go away this quickly. I literally battled it for like 3-4 months.

 

[ErikVR]

Difficult to see, but still looks like itch. It won't go away this quickly. I literally battled it for like 3-4 months.

I've been running the tank at 1.009 sg for almost two whole weeks now.
I assumed it would clear up within days. At least, I think I read that somewhere.

 

[Icryhard]

I've been running the tank at 1.009 sg for almost two whole weeks now.
I assumed it would clear up within days. At least, I think I read that somewhere.

That's a valid point. I kept mine at 1025 salinity...

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I've been running the tank at 1.009 sg for almost two whole weeks now.
I assumed it would clear up within days. At least, I think I read that somewhere.

I can't rule out ich in those photos - hyposalinity is very slow to act. Two weeks is a bit longer than normal, but still within reason.

Are you 100% confident that you are at 1.009? Measuring specific gravity is not always easy, and if you are a bit higher than 1.009. hypo won't work.

Jay

 

[ErikVR]

Are you 100% confident that you are at 1.009? Measuring specific gravity is not always easy, and if you are a bit higher than 1.009. hypo won't work.

Jay

I'm using the Hanna salinity tester. Always reads 1.009. Got an ATO that keeps the water level perfectly consistent. I hear it coming on every few hours.

Ive just recalibrated the tester and it still reads 1.009.

 

[ErikVR]

Both looking healthy right now.

 

[juboy27]

It is commonly seen, when ich first starts up, that all of the trophonts are on the same cycle - they drop off the fish to form tomonts at the same time, then the tomonts release theronts at the same time that cause new trophonts. Eventually, the population gets out of sync with each other and spots appear all the time, in greater numbers.

The only other thing that produces spots that come and go rapidly are sand grains sticking to the fish. This does not look like that to me, and tangs do not have sticky skin mucus that tends to cause sand to stick.

I've never used Sera Costapur F, but it is malachite green and formalin. I have used that combination in other products and it is not very effective against Cryptocaryon, marine ich. Coppersafe or Hyposalinity are the two best treatments.

Ich management techniques:

1) Use a strong UV sterilizer
2) Perform frequent water changes
3) Siphoning the sand late every night to remove tomonts
4) Good mechanical filtration to remove theronts
5) Low dose peroxide additions
6) Provide a good diet

Ich management only works if you catch the infection early enough and do it right. Once the number of trophonts on the fish reach a certain point (perhaps 30 or so spots on any one fish - and yours may be past that point) then "propagule pressure" comes into play, where the effects of the trophonts themselves stresses the fish and the ich management techniques start to fail.


Jay

Hi I would like to order some peroxide off Amazon or eBay what one can I get as there are a lot of variations out there. Can someone send me a link please thanks I am in Kent uk

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hi I would like to order some peroxide off Amazon or eBay what one can I get as there are a lot of variations out there. Can someone send me a link please thanks I am in Kent uk

I checked Amazon UK - they don't list polylab medic, so that means the company hasn't licensed the product for sale there.

Just regular 3% hydrogen peroxide from a druggist is used by some people. but you'd have to search around for a dose.

Jay