Does Copper affect the nervous system?

[Gridlock]

I'm treating all of my fish for Ick, and I'm using Cuprion by Brightwell Aquatics, and I'm testing with the API Copper Test Kit. The fish have been put into a separate quarantine tank, which is separate from the main display tank. I'm in this situation because of not quarantining new fish to begin with, but that's aside the point.

My Powder Brown Tang suddenly showed problems today. Today was the final dose over a 5-day period of increased copper up to a final level of .4 ppm. He was upside down, having trouble staying upright. When i reached in to touch him, he swam away but was clearly distressed. He slowly turned upside down again. I immediately pulled him out of the quarantine tank and back into the display. A rash decision, perhaps, but i wanted to get him out of the copper immediately.

I'm happy to report that he showed signs of improvement within just a few minutes. After an hour, he is now swimming about and even eating seaweed.

So why did this happen? Is this Tang a "copper sensitive" fish?

 

[Tft12]

He was upside down, having trouble staying upright. When i reached in to touch him, he swam away but was clearly distressed. He slowly turned upside down again. I immediately pulled him out of the quarantine tank and back into the display. A rash decision, perhaps, but i wanted to get him out of the copper immediately.

Great call on moving him right away. I didn’t know that this behavior was a sign of copper toxicity until I read a thread last night by @Humblefish. A few years ago I kept losing Powder Blue Tangs in qt (I always run prophylactic copper in qt with new fish because in the distant past I lost batches of fish in qt due to spotting velvet too late).

I kept describing the fish behavior and death in forums and the answer I kept getting was delayed signs of cyanide poisoning.

At the time I was using Cupramine according to the manufactures recommended dosing. Then I decided to lower the Cupramine concentration to 200-300 ppb and the next Powder Blue Tang went through qt pefectly fine, and so did the subsequent Achilles, and every other acanthus tang.

My solution was to use Cupramine at 200-300 ppb tested with a Hanna Checker. A different product (I believe it was Copper Power chelated copper) was recommended to me last night. Whatever method you go with, the copper Hanna Checker is a big help in my opinion.

 

[Tft12]

Btw, if you happen to go the route that I did, closer to 200 ppb would probably be safer than closer to 300 ppb.

 

[USMC 4 LIFE]

I believe you’re testing for copper incorrectly.

Chelated copper (coppersafe) = API test kit
Ionic copper (cupramine) = salifert test kit

 

[Sorcha2]

I think a lot of people use way too much copper. It has its use but the majority of saltwater fish seem to be more sensitive to it and there isn't a ton of research on the levels each type can survive.

 

[USMC 4 LIFE]

I am additionally treating a PBT with coppersafe with no side affects. Eating well and on day 5 of therapeutic level (2.0 measured with API copper test kit)

 

[Tft12]

I think a lot of people use way too much copper. It has its use but the majority of saltwater fish seem to be more sensitive to it and there isn't a ton of research on the levels each type can survive.

I think it’s great, if it’s dosed properly, which unfortunately isn’t necessarily according to the manufacturer’s recommendations.

 

[Tft12]

I believe you’re testing for copper incorrectly.

Chelated copper (coppersafe) = API test kit
Ionic copper (cupramine) = salifert test kit

Thanks. I was using the Hanna checker for copper back before it was technically validated for that, so yeah I was kind of testing wrong, strictly speaking. Recently Hanna has validated their copper checker for use in saltwater systems...I think Cupramine was on the list that was validated, but even it wasn’t on the list I was definitely adding x amount of Cupramine to y amount of water as per directions. That product is just too harsh on certain fish at their recommended dose...at least in my qt system. After lowering the dose and testing for confirmation, all the fish went through well and no ich or velvet slipped through.

 

[Gridlock]

I believe you’re testing for copper incorrectly.

Chelated copper (coppersafe) = API test kit
Ionic copper (cupramine) = salifert test kit

Thanks. I didn't realize the test kit I am using is for the wrong copper type.

 

[Gridlock]

Great call on moving him right away. I didn’t know that this behavior was a sign of copper toxicity until I read a thread last night by @Humblefish. A few years ago I kept losing Powder Blue Tangs in qt (I always run prophylactic copper in qt with new fish because in the distant past I lost batches of fish in qt due to spotting velvet too late).

I kept describing the fish behavior and death in forums and the answer I kept getting was delayed signs of cyanide poisoning.

At the time I was using Cupramine according to the manufactures recommended dosing. Then I decided to lower the Cupramine concentration to 200-300 ppb and the next Powder Blue Tang went through qt pefectly fine, and so did the subsequent Achilles, and every other acanthus tang.

My solution was to use Cupramine at 200-300 ppb tested with a Hanna Checker. A different product (I believe it was Copper Power chelated copper) was recommended to me last night. Whatever method you go with, the copper Hanna Checker is a big help in my opinion.

I may try the Hanna Checker, though I think I need to research more. Is the Hanna Checker OK to use with my type of copper I'm using? It's been suggested that I should purchase the Salifert Test Kit instead.

 

[Tft12]

I really like the Hanna Checker a lot. Marine Depot did a conference call with a Hanna Rep a few weeks ago and the rep listed which copper medications their High Range Copper Hanna Checker had been validated with. I didn't write them down and I can't seem to find the audio from the call online again. I thought I had saved the email with the link but I can't find it. I'll put a post in their forum. I also came across two threads by @Humblefish where that tester had recently been added to their list of copper test kits. To me, it's the easiest way to test copper.

 

[Tft12]

I may try the Hanna Checker, though I think I need to research more. Is the Hanna Checker OK to use with my type of copper I'm using? It's been suggested that I should purchase the Salifert Test Kit instead.

Here's the thread for the checker in the Hanna forum:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hi702-copper-checker-for-seawater.386806/