Does high flow really matter?

There’s a lot to unpack here. First the flow that we get from pumps is nothing like the ‘flow’ in the ocean. In the ocean, corals are seeing much more water moving past/through them than even the highest flow tanks. So, while to your eyes it may look like they’re not getting much flow, in reality they are getting orders of magnitude more flow than in our tanks. The other thing to consider is that the ‘flow’ in the ocean is not as directional and laminar as it is in our tanks, there is multidirectional, turbulent, rolling ‘flow’ on natural reefs, so again, to our eyes it may not look like as much flow because it’s not all going in one or two directions. And then on top of the regular multidirectional turbulent flow, there are ocean currents, the tide, upwellings, storms, etc that add to, change, and influence the amount and type of flow corals receive. It’s nearly impossible to replicate in a small, closed box. Even big surge machines used by public aquariums and some larger private tanks don’t come close to matching the amount and type of flow corals see in the wild. The type of flow we can replicate in our tanks is not ideal, the only way we can move enough water over our corals is with pumps that by their very nature, are unable to provide the amount and the kind of flow that corals experience in the wild.

To address the question of whether or not corals need high flow. It obviously varies depending on species, and corals are quite adaptable, but the answer is ‘yes’, they do need high amounts of flow. To properly respirate, corals need quite a bit of flow. Flow also dictates the amount of photosynthesis that can be achieved, pulsing Xenia has the highest rate of respiration and therefore photosynthesis of any known coral, because it pulsing action effectively moves water into and then away from the colony. High flow is also important for moving the byproducts (free radicals) of photosynthesis away from the coral, without adequate flow moving these free radicals away from the coral, they experience oxidative stress that can breakdown proteins and cell membranes and ultimately even kill the coral.

Lastly, high flow is important for keeping detritus suspended so that it can be filtered out, it can be a deterrent for nuisance algae/Cyanobacteria to grow, and it ensures proper oxygenation for all of the aerobic life that lives in your tank. High flow is also important for fish, many fish need high flow to stay fit and healthy. Active fish like and need high flow to swim against, fish from tanks with low flow can be become obese (over feeding is also part of this, but lack of flow is undoubtedly part of the cause in many cases - and like with humans in North America, obesity is far too common in captive reef fish). It can also be considered enrichment, I know my fish seem to enjoy swimming against the flow.

Overall, this just seems like a really bizarre thing to be questioning, as it is, for all intents and purposes, settled science. As I said above, corals are highly adaptable, and so long as they’re getting enough flow to respirate and photosynthesize, they’ll survive, but to truly thrive, they need a good amount of flow (again, what constitutes a ‘good amount’ varies depending on species).
Great summary.

I remember reading on forums many moons ago about stony corals that would grow more "leggy" and not as dense with less flow. Much like having to condition young indoor plants inside with fans before putting them outside.
 
There’s a lot to unpack here. First the flow that we get from pumps is nothing like the ‘flow’ in the ocean. In the ocean, corals are seeing much more water moving past/through them than even the highest flow tanks. So, while to your eyes it may look like they’re not getting much flow, in reality they are getting orders of magnitude more flow than in our tanks. The other thing to consider is that the ‘flow’ in the ocean is not as directional and laminar as it is in our tanks, there is multidirectional, turbulent, rolling ‘flow’ on natural reefs, so again, to our eyes it may not look like as much flow because it’s not all going in one or two directions. And then on top of the regular multidirectional turbulent flow, there are ocean currents, the tide, upwellings, storms, etc that add to, change, and influence the amount and type of flow corals receive. It’s nearly impossible to replicate in a small, closed box. Even big surge machines used by public aquariums and some larger private tanks don’t come close to matching the amount and type of flow corals see in the wild. The type of flow we can replicate in our tanks is not ideal, the only way we can move enough water over our corals is with pumps that by their very nature, are unable to provide the amount and the kind of flow that corals experience in the wild.

To address the question of whether or not corals need high flow. It obviously varies depending on species, and corals are quite adaptable, but the answer is ‘yes’, they do need high amounts of flow. To properly respirate, corals need quite a bit of flow. Flow also dictates the amount of photosynthesis that can be achieved, pulsing Xenia has the highest rate of respiration and therefore photosynthesis of any known coral, because it pulsing action effectively moves water into and then away from the colony. High flow is also important for moving the byproducts (free radicals) of photosynthesis away from the coral, without adequate flow moving these free radicals away from the coral, they experience oxidative stress that can breakdown proteins and cell membranes and ultimately even kill the coral.

Lastly, high flow is important for keeping detritus suspended so that it can be filtered out, it can be a deterrent for nuisance algae/Cyanobacteria to grow, and it ensures proper oxygenation for all of the aerobic life that lives in your tank. High flow is also important for fish, many fish need high flow to stay fit and healthy. Active fish like and need high flow to swim against, fish from tanks with low flow can be become obese (over feeding is also part of this, but lack of flow is undoubtedly part of the cause in many cases - and like with humans in North America, obesity is far too common in captive reef fish). It can also be considered enrichment, I know my fish seem to enjoy swimming against the flow.

Overall, this just seems like a really bizarre thing to be questioning, as it is, for all intents and purposes, settled science. As I said above, corals are highly adaptable, and so long as they’re getting enough flow to respirate and photosynthesize, they’ll survive, but to truly thrive, they need a good amount of flow (again, what constitutes a ‘good amount’ varies depending on species).
One thing I have seen is lower flow acros get long thin branches with higher flow they are much thicker. Many of the sps tanks people have they have flow rates that exceed 200x tank volume. I have about 100x in my mixed tank.
 
So, basically everyone has an opinion on flow rate. All I am saying is that I have noticed that it really doesn't matter that much in my observation. What I meant by flow, was not tank turnover. I am taking about all the extra little (sometimes large) pumps we put inside the tank to get additional flow across the corals. I am sure most of the time it doesn't hurt, but maybe we really don't get much benefit having these unsightly contraptions in our tank. This whole flow requirement might just be marketing hype from the pump vendors. Has anyone just turned them off to see what happens over time.

I thought the flow seemed low, even for my mixed reef. I took the cover off and noticed the problem with my gyre. Time to replace..... or maybe not. You will notice the SPS directly below the broken side that have been getting almost no flow are flourishing. I might just take it out and see what happens even though I have a replacement already. I am headed out of town all next week, so I will leave the half that is still working in place and they try removing it when I get back and can monitor the system.
broken gyre.jpg
 
For sps tanks like my 120 it prefers high random flow. I run 6 powerheads all on random except one that is 100% only when lights are on.
I started with 4 and as the tank grew in added 1 then another as the colonies got big.
With 5 powerheads going on and off and ramping up and down I get great flow but not overpowering flow.
 
I find in general, acros prefer high flow. In my 80g I run two MP40's at 90% Reefcrest Antisync 24/7. I'm at 100x not including my returns. I did experiment with even more flow and added a third. In a tank with a lot of acros, it's easy to tell quickly when they are happy or not. My Alk/Cal started increasing so happy they were not. 2 MP40s turned out to be my sweet spot.

It also depends on the acro. For instance, I find that millis love some of the highest flow, tenius somewhere in the middle, and there are some acros that do well in low flow (ex. Secale). But I can tell you that I have a few spots with very limited flow in my tank, simply due to rock structure and acros do not do well in those spots.

The only way you will know what works best for your tank and corals is through experimentation. Increase flow and see how your corals react. Decrease flow and see how your corals react. Move pumps around to make sure you have good indirect flow in the majority of areas.

IMO the average acro prefers high indirect flow (100x).
One of the issues you might be seeing is that moving the circulation pumps around can change the filtering effect of the Periphyton on your rocks. For instance, the micro sponges that filter the water in a mature tank have oriented themselves in a particular direction due to the flow of water over them. When you change the flow, you may loose some of the periphyton on your rock work and see the change in water quality and corals look less healthy. The Periphyton might not care about the amount of flow, but the direction. As we all know, the less we change, the better our tank does. I might be totally wrong about the amount of flow, but I have just not noticed that it matters all that much.
 
High flow is important because its an enclosded tiny space vs. the ocean. In such a small space you will need to move waste/nutrients around so it doesnt accumulate. So even if you are in the ocean and such we don't feel much movement, but our tiny wave makers will never out compete a grand wave scale.
 
max tremors - I was just about to write a detailed response then I saw yours and it covered all the things I wanted to say. Excellent response. The bulk flow seen by corals in nature is much higher than they see in our tanks, but we can't do the equivalent of a full water change every minute in our tanks, so we use pumps to try to recreate some of that flow.
 
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So, basically everyone has an opinion on flow rate. All I am saying is that I have noticed that it really doesn't matter that much in my observation. What I meant by flow, was not tank turnover. I am taking about all the extra little (sometimes large) pumps we put inside the tank to get additional flow across the corals. I am sure most of the time it doesn't hurt, but maybe we really don't get much benefit having these unsightly contraptions in our tank. This whole flow requirement might just be marketing hype from the pump vendors. Has anyone just turned them off to see what happens over time.

I thought the flow seemed low, even for my mixed reef. I took the cover off and noticed the problem with my gyre. Time to replace..... or maybe not. You will notice the SPS directly below the broken side that have been getting almost no flow are flourishing. I might just take it out and see what happens even though I have a replacement already. I am headed out of town all next week, so I will leave the half that is still working in place and they try removing it when I get back and can monitor the system.
broken gyre.jpg
You can search these forums for experiments, not opinions, showing grow rate correlated to flow speed for certain corals. Yes it does help. No you don't absolutely need high flows.
I can grow tomatoes without miracle gro, but not so many.
 
Even in the worst case conditions in a real ocean reef, high flow is only for short durations around a lunar cycle. What I am seeing in some tanks is way over that amount and even though it is changing, it is usually throughout the day, every day. I used to think it was important also, but when I gave up on it I did not notice much difference except maybe slower growth. I am weird and prefer less growth because it is less work for me having to prune corals that grow into others. I have noticed my hammers are really growing fast and big though. I am starting to stack corals in the water column now, and my idea was to have some floating in the middle of my tank, so too much flow would be a problem for that (there is a thread with a pic of what I am talking about i on here https://www.reef2reef.com/posts/9889384/) I will attach a pic when I clean my glass and get one.
Have you ever snorkled over a reef crest? Coral growing up to the surface make it a dicey move but there is a lot of life on both sides of the apex where the current is always moving, in or out, year round. Only slows down a few times a day to change direction.

The sick branches of acropora get snapped / pruned in storms from high current. Massive corals ( Many meters in diameter) get pushed around into the channels landing upside down. They have to adjust growth patterns to the new spot. Some die, some survive. If they go deep or land in the rubble pile the algae(?) or bacterial infections start to thrive on the broken pieces. The top ends of branching corals might start a new colony, but they need the water movement and light to out grow the alage / bacterial attacks.

In low flow, its a grave yard. Just a pile of newly curing liverock that we can't harvest our tanks because most people have never snorkled in these shallow spots where the current rips. My last trip I found I am too old to make the journey at peak tide change which broke my heart because i couldn't keep up like I used to. Tip for tourists, always kick into the current at the beginning of your swim so you can drift back. Watch to tidal ebbs or you will have to kick both directions, if you can. :)
 
The difference to me is laminar flow or not. Direct flow. Or faned out. Yes if I could I would replicate the ocean and have a giant aquarium with a tiny little reef in it but I can't.
I recently purchased dated waveboxes. Gonna try those.
Waveboxes are kinda something left in the past lol.
With gyres and dc smart pumps now days.

Idk I guess I agree with you but also see the other side where we don't want algae or nuisance bacteria. We want nutrients to get to our coral and fish. A swimming fish is a happy fish. Lol.
My thoughts.
D
 
In the wild, corals get these varying "pushes" of water movement. These allow the entire colony to perform necessary functions related to the coral's inner biology as well as feeding. In reef aquaria, we simply can't recreate that flow at such a wide surface area of force. So how do we get around it? We use very powerful pumps. This forces water to move from one end of a colony, to the other, rather than having a blanket of water movement like wild reefs achieve. Some public aquaria create this with wave machines. Some nicer pumps can make very wide flow, but it is still impossible to create the full sphere of flow that can exists where corals live.


It is also important to remember that the amount of flow that corals need is variable by each ecological niche that a coral benefits from having recreated. BUT, living in said condition does NOT mean it is ideal. Organisms are under pressure to meet the minimum requirements to reproduce successful offspring. This means that they don't need to be perfectly adapted to an environment. No organism is perfectly adapted to any environment. Selection pressure can remove a "negative" rather than add a "positive" and vice versa. This also means that an adaptation to an environment may not be harmful if the selection pressure is removed.

We can tell that some of these species have adaptations to high flow, but how it is benefiting them is not as clear. Could it be less competition in one of the most densely populated living areas in the world? Maybe. Could it be to gain access to some resource in the water or what not that is only in these areas? Maybe. Could it be both or more. Sure. Could some of these traits, such as small polyps not be adaptive, or not highly beneficial in reef aquaria. Yes.


Also, keep in mind that the terms SPS, LPS, Softies, and such are hobby terms and not evolutionarily useful.


So to ask if high flow "matters," you have to ask yourself what does it mean to "matter"
 
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I think Spare time said it right with "So to ask if high flow "matters," you have to ask yourself what does it mean to "matter" or even, what does high flow mean? I am not taking about stagnate water, just that the industry seems to have taken flow to extremes. I hear people saying that we can get nowhere near what happens flow wise on an ocean reef, and that is probably correct during a storm (unless you own a turkey baster and use it occasionally). If you just look at your tank and see the polyps on LPS hard over in the current you will see that it is similar to what you see in the worst tidal flow areas. I am not saying that super high flow doesn't work, just that it is not needed for most of the corals in your tank. A nice mild flow looks better to me and seems to be preforming adequately.
By the way, what kills/damages reefs in the wild with respect to water flow is really related water temperature from cold water that flows onto the reef from the depths. When there is an even that changes this flow, lots of stuff dies (just look at what happened in the Galapagos years ago).
 
I hear a lot about needing less flow or current for some corals, but does it really matter much to have high flow. Seems like all the pump vendors show off these incredible flow tanks that look like the inside of a washing machine. I can tell you that I have SCUBA dived reefs all over the world, and never been in any high current situations. I know that having some flow is essential, but how much is really needed? I currently have a mixed reef tank for the past 5 years and I never had and incredible amount of flow in it. I forget to clean my gyre and it ends up hardly pumping at all, yet the corals seem to grow fine with good polyp extension, so does high flow really matter?
Was in 35 to 40 knots off Cozumel. Crazy trying to do macro shots. Watched two guys pretending to water ski
 
I hear a lot about needing less flow or current for some corals, but does it really matter much to have high flow. Seems like all the pump vendors show off these incredible flow tanks that look like the inside of a washing machine. I can tell you that I have SCUBA dived reefs all over the world, and never been in any high current situations. I know that having some flow is essential, but how much is really needed? I currently have a mixed reef tank for the past 5 years and I never had and incredible amount of flow in it. I forget to clean my gyre and it ends up hardly pumping at all, yet the corals seem to grow fine with good polyp extension, so does high flow really matter?
Depends who you want to believe seen coral thriving right at shore. I read Dana Riddles article. I figure he knows what he is talking about. It is here somewhere. He said as much flow as you need to move the sand, then aim it above
 
IMHO - there is of course a limit - but IMHO - the more RANDOM flow - the better. The flow in the ocean is far higher at times of the day - than basically anything we do in our tanks. In the ocean - when diving - what seems like 'a little flow' against a human body - is a lot of flow. Closer to shore its even more.

IMHO - the problem with flow is when one has a powerhead/pump on one high setting blasting on one section. The same flow - if intermittent would not cause a problem.

There is a lot of anecdote - GSP needs 'low light low flow'. LPS needs low flow. IMHO - as along as the flow (within reason) - is not constantly in one direction - focused on one spot - almost any flow is tolerated. If you click my video (the green circle below) - you can see the flow that hits my GSP - its also at the top of the tank in high light. I traded a Chunk of it to an LFS. in a month - it was dull, nearly colorless, etc - (and this is a great LFS)
 
My flow is what works 4 me. One Nero 5 on the back wall of wbx90. 30%... Softies, Duncan, 2 anemones. Fish. Again, what works for me. Stability. Same flow. Same lights. Same temp. And a weekly 10%. water change. K.i.s.s...... to each his or her own.
 
I am a diver also. Most reefs that I have seen get high flows more often than people think. Flow on a reef can often be 1 - 2 knots. That kind of current translates to turnover rates of between 5,000 and 10,000. In some places, flows like that are common in other places much less so. But on most Caribbean reefs, I see the gorgonians swaying back and forth.

And I see things like Elkhorn coral (an acropora) only in places with high surge and high currents.

I often see the healthiest corals on the edge of walls with drop offs into the abyss. The water wells up from below and bathes the lip of the wall.

I would say that most of the time, currents on reefs exceed those of most of our aquariums and in some cases are astronomical.

For example, currents at Cozumel and off the east coast of Florida at Jupiter, Palm Beach and Pompano Beach, drift dives are routine. At the Blue Heron Bridge, the currents are so high that it is routinely dived only right before or right after high tide. All of these places routinely have currents higher than even the highest flows in reef tanks.
 
IMHO - there is of course a limit - but IMHO - the more RANDOM flow - the better. The flow in the ocean is far higher at times of the day - than basically anything we do in our tanks. In the ocean - when diving - what seems like 'a little flow' against a human body - is a lot of flow. Closer to shore its even more.

IMHO - the problem with flow is when one has a powerhead/pump on one high setting blasting on one section. The same flow - if intermittent would not cause a problem.

There is a lot of anecdote - GSP needs 'low light low flow'. LPS needs low flow. IMHO - as along as the flow (within reason) - is not constantly in one direction - focused on one spot - almost any flow is tolerated. If you click my video (the green circle below) - you can see the flow that hits my GSP - its also at the top of the tank in high light. I traded a Chunk of it to an LFS. in a month - it was dull, nearly colorless, etc - (and this is a great LFS)
I started watching the video and got so busy admiring a pair of Goldflake Angels I forgot what the thread topic was, for a moment. (Busy Saturday doing work for the mame.)

Anyway, the idea of flow in our tanks vs flow on a wild reef is an interesting one. The flow in our tanks is recirculation whereas the (low) flow on a reef is like a water change/ second. A wild reef at the leading edge into the prevailing current gets fresh water (nutrients, O2, ) all the time even during calm tides and weather. Going deeper into a lagoon where the water column has time to flow past more coral the quality of the water arriving is lowered (imo) by the other coral that got to it first. The back areas in lagoons look more like the average reef tank, ime.

I gotta go, (she's calling) from deep in the lagoon,
k
 

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