Does using prime affect the bacterial population

[Garbonzo]

I recently had a tank break so I am switching tanks on Thursday. I was advised to use prime and that my tank will cycle again. My rock is going straight from DT to holding talk w flow (out of water 3 seconds) and back again so I'm not thinking there will be a ton of die off; however, if there is an ammonia spike and Prime is used to remedy it, does prime render ammonia unusable to nitrosomonas thereby dropping the carrying capacity by removing energy source therefore creating a mini-cycle.

In short what molecule is created when prime binds with ammonia, and can nitrosomonas utilize that that molecule through the same metabolic pathway as ammonia itself?

 

[HotRocks]

Ok you are technically a bit over my head.

If your rock has stayed to temp/salinity/flow. There shouldn't be die off.

Prime removes metals and detoxifies ammonia. So the ammonia is still there but in a form that is no longer toxic harmful to fish.

I wouldn't think you would need it from what you are describing you are doing.

 

[Solis Reef]

No

 

[brandon429]

Prime, no harm to bac.

The way to switch tanks and not recycle is to move no detritus waste or clouding. The move itself doesn't cause a recycle

Here's me draining a twelve year old reef in the air 30 mins no recycle and then next day all good

You are about to be much nicer to your system. The use of prime causes false test positives, but no bac died.


Next day


My nitrifers don't even get the courtesy of water during cleaning time.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Won’t hurt it no. If you stir up funk and add prime , it’ll bind the ammonia and stop the mini cycle yes.
I’d have some on hand yes sure.
But my druthers would be bacterial.

 

[Garbonzo]

Ok you are technically a bit over my head.

If your rock has stayed to temp/salinity/flow. There shouldn't be die off.

Prime removes metals and detoxifies ammonia. So the ammonia is still there but in a form that is no longer toxic harmful to fish.

I wouldn't think you would need it from what you are describing you are doing.

I guess what I'm asking is can nitrosomonas eat the prime-bound form of ammonia? Depending on what molecule prime changes ammonia into, I can easily see the bacteria not having the ability/enzymatic pathway to utilize the new "form" of ammonia. Not that prime will kill bacteria directly, but rather reduce their population size by essentially starving out a percentage of the population.

 

[rsumner]

I guess what I'm asking is can nitrosomonas eat the prime-bound form of ammonia? Depending on what molecule prime changes ammonia into, I can easily see the bacteria not having the ability/enzymatic pathway to utilize the new "form" of ammonia. Not that prime will kill bacteria directly, but rather reduce their population size by essentially starving out a percentage of the population.

It's certainly an interesting theory, but only applies if you're overdosing Prime to control Ammonia, Nitrite, or Nitrate levels rather than just using it as a declorinator. Keep in mind, that Prime will only bind to these elements for up to 48 hours (according to Seachem) and then releases them if they are still present. I can't imagine how these elements would **not** be present any longer after 48 hours unless they were in a form that could be eaten up by **some** strain of bacteria. I've only overdosed Primeas a way to give me a 48 hour "relief period" so that bacterial strains can repopulate/build, however I don't have any scientific proof of this and the Seachem forums (while having a ton of material on the topic) don't provide specifics on bacterial impact -- only chemical impact on the elements in question.

 

[HotRocks]

I guess what I'm asking is can nitrosomonas eat the prime-bound form of ammonia? Depending on what molecule prime changes ammonia into, I can easily see the bacteria not having the ability/enzymatic pathway to utilize the new "form" of ammonia. Not that prime will kill bacteria directly, but rather reduce their population size by essentially starving out a percentage of the population.

Yes, the biofilter still has to eliminate the ammonia. It basically just binds it into a form that doesn't harm the inhabitants. As mentioned by others I don't have scientific proof. That is just my general understanding of the product. I have used it during establishing a biofilter in QT and the bacteria always eventually processed ammonia to the point prime was no longer needed.

So in theory no harm to bacteria.

 

[Garbonzo]

@Randy Holmes-Farley Do you know the reaction of prime and ammonia? Whether it is a temporary attraction of proximity or covalent? I would think ammonia is converted to another molecule of lower energy or increased stability, but that could be wrong. Does prime "release" ammonia or is it simple exhausted in the water column after 48hours by other reactions with various molecules being a highly reactive agent? I would think a release would be unlikely as a potential charge attraction stays the same, but I am no expert.

 

[Dan_P]

I recently had a tank break so I am switching tanks on Thursday. I was advised to use prime and that my tank will cycle again. My rock is going straight from DT to holding talk w flow (out of water 3 seconds) and back again so I'm not thinking there will be a ton of die off; however, if there is an ammonia spike and Prime is used to remedy it, does prime render ammonia unusable to nitrosomonas thereby dropping the carrying capacity by removing energy source therefore creating a mini-cycle.

In short what molecule is created when prime binds with ammonia, and can nitrosomonas utilize that that molecule through the same metabolic pathway as ammonia itself?

The use of Prime is probably just a precaution, better safe than sorry.

Prime chemically combines with ammonia, though the basic conditions of the salicylate ammonia test will reverse the reaction and give a false positive for ammonia. The prime molecule looks like a bacterial carbon source though maybe not for nitrification bacteria - pure speculation on my part.