Dosing Kalk; Please clarify something...

[Dom]

Kent Marine's Kalkwrasser states:

"2 TSP per gallon of water".

In a 30 gallon tank, that measures out to 10 ounces ( approximately 1/3 liter if my math is right).
Is that daily?

It sounds like a lot.

Typical calcium levels in my tank are around 400-440 24 hours after a water change. They are usually around 300-360 before a water change (weekly).

I plan on dosing to keep the calcium in the 400-440 range throughout the week.

Thoughts?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Definitely not.

2 tsp per gallon dissolves into fresh water. That's per gallon of fresh water.

Then you use that fresh water to top off for evaporation, and need to add it very slowly, such as dripping or very slow pump.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Do not base the dose on calcium. That will fail.

Base the dose on alkalinity, since it responds far faster to over or under dosing.

 

[Dom]

Latest Alkalinity:

dKH = 8.10
Meq/L= 2.5

Will dosing drive these numbers up?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

If you are dosing more than demand, it will raise them by 20 ppm calcium for each 2.8 dKH (1 meq/L) of alkalinity added.

But the dose is limited by evaporation and does not always meet or exceed demand.

 

[WetWhistle]

How old is your system? Do you have frag sized corals or larger colonies? I found the kalk in the ATO a perfect solution when most of my corals were frags but once my corals grew big that method didn't meet my demands.

Like Randy said if you drip it do it slowly. I like to do it at night to cut down on PH swings. Just drip slowly in a higher flow area or you can cause problems that you don't want. If your tank doesn't hive high ALK or calcium needs the ATO is an easy way to supplement.

 

[Dom]

How old is your system? Do you have frag sized corals or larger colonies? I found the kalk in the ATO a perfect solution when most of my corals were frags but once my corals grew big that method didn't meet my demands.

Like Randy said if you drip it do it slowly. I like to do it at night to cut down on PH swings. Just drip slowly in a higher flow area or you can cause problems that you don't want. If your tank doesn't hive high ALK or calcium needs the ATO is an easy way to supplement.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I calculated that I need about 300ml daily.

I planned on mixing 1 liter at a time. Using a medical IV rig, I plan on dripping the solution into the sump by the return pump at a drip rate which will deliver 300ml over a 24 hour period.

I don't know that I like the ATO method. What if the rate at which calcium is consumed is greater than the rate of evaporation? Calcium would decrease at a rate greater than it is being replenished.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

As I mentioned in a previous post, I calculated that I need about 300ml daily.

I planned on mixing 1 liter at a time. Using a medical IV rig, I plan on dripping the solution into the sump by the return pump at a drip rate which will deliver 300ml over a 24 hour period.

I don't know that I like the ATO method. What if the rate at which calcium is consumed is greater than the rate of evaporation? Calcium would decrease at a rate greater than it is being replenished.

Again, the focus should be on alkalinity, not calcium. That said, limewater (kalkwasser) can become not enough since it is limited by evaporation, and in that case you can add an additional method, such as a two part system, or switch entirely.

 

[Dom]

Again, the focus should be on alkalinity, not calcium.

Yes... I do recall reading one of your articles on this subject and the link between calcium and alkalinity. In that article, you state:

"If, for example, you add too much of a calcium supplement, you will drive down alkalinity as you get precipitation of calcium carbonate in the tank. Likewise, adding too much of an alkalinity supplement can result in reduction of calcium."

Not to be difficult, but to understand, too much of either will drive down the other. Is that correct? If so, this is about balance. Are you saying, if I bring up my alkalinity, my calcium will come up? I understand that this is true where SG is concerned; there is a limit as to how high calcium will come up based on the SG level.

Again, to refocus, 24 hours after a water change, my calcium will be as high as 440 and within a week (by my next water change), it will be as low as 300. My goal isn't to get the calcium level up as much as it is trying to keep it in the 440 area.

It's just frustrating that I have frags almost a year and there has been no notable growth in any of them.

 

[Dom]

How old is your system? Do you have frag sized corals or larger colonies? I found the kalk in the ATO a perfect solution when most of my corals were frags but once my corals grew big that method didn't meet my demands.

Like Randy said if you drip it do it slowly. I like to do it at night to cut down on PH swings. Just drip slowly in a higher flow area or you can cause problems that you don't want. If your tank doesn't hive high ALK or calcium needs the ATO is an easy way to supplement.

My system is about 6 years old. During that time, some modifications have been made to plumbing and equipment. My frags are a year old and have not grown since I placed them in the tank. I've tried moving them around for different lighting and water flow, but no luck.

 

[WetWhistle]

As I mentioned in a previous post, I calculated that I need about 300ml daily.

I planned on mixing 1 liter at a time. Using a medical IV rig, I plan on dripping the solution into the sump by the return pump at a drip rate which will deliver 300ml over a 24 hour period.

I don't know that I like the ATO method. What if the rate at which calcium is consumed is greater than the rate of evaporation? Calcium would decrease at a rate greater than it is being replenished.

I have used the drip method and it works quite well. Just have it slow enough to drip till done but not to slow it stops.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Yes... I do recall reading one of your articles on this subject and the link between calcium and alkalinity. In that article, you state:

"If, for example, you add too much of a calcium supplement, you will drive down alkalinity as you get precipitation of calcium carbonate in the tank. Likewise, adding too much of an alkalinity supplement can result in reduction of calcium."

Not to be difficult, but to understand, too much of either will drive down the other. Is that correct? If so, this is about balance. Are you saying, if I bring up my alkalinity, my calcium will come up? I understand that this is true where SG is concerned; there is a limit as to how high calcium will come up based on the SG level.

Again, to refocus, 24 hours after a water change, my calcium will be as high as 440 and within a week (by my next water change), it will be as low as 300. My goal isn't to get the calcium level up as much as it is trying to keep it in the 440 area.

It's just frustrating that I have frags almost a year and there has been no notable growth in any of them.

Yes, but the effect is small for reasonable elevations or for lower pH.

For calcium to drop by 140 ppm, alk would have to drop by 20 dKH (or if dosing, you'd have to dose that much).

If alk didn't drop and you did not add that much, the calcium drop is testing error.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Not to be difficult, but to understand, too much of either will drive down the other. Is that correct? If so, this is about balance. Are you saying, if I bring up my alkalinity, my calcium will come up? I understand that this is true where SG is concerned; there is a limit as to how high calcium will come up based on the SG level.
.

Everything in the water rises as sg rises (except those things which are not chemicals, such as pH and ORP).

You never need to worry about increased alk and calcium causing excessive precipitation just by normal increases in salinity. Besides the effects being fairly small, magnesium also increases, which tends to inhibit precipitation.

 

[Heather w]

I'm just wondering if the low growth might not be chemical at all. Maybe lighting? I'm a total moron when words like chemistry are tossed around but before ' I learned" about any dosing all I had was a FO tank and I was given a SPS and it grew like mad! Tossing babies everywhere. Then I learned about dosing ect.... I had a good light

 

[Heather w]

I think some of this confusion is because you are misreading the directions. 2 teaspoons max per gallon of FRESH water. Let stand until layers form. A white crust you skim. The clear you pour off an KEEP leaving the cloudy in the discard.

 

[Heather w]

And I must have missed the magnesium factored in in this thread. Neither calcium or alkalinity will cooperate without it being balanced. I'll hush now. Like I said. I don't do chemistry. But I love to ready and study

 

[Dom]

I'm just wondering if the low growth might not be chemical at all. Maybe lighting? I'm a total moron when words like chemistry are tossed around but before ' I learned" about any dosing all I had was a FO tank and I was given a SPS and it grew like mad! Tossing babies everywhere. Then I learned about dosing ect.... I had a good light

I just went back to T5 lighting after using LED. I had a great deal of success with T5 and went back to it as an experiment to see if it was lighting.

 

[Dom]

I think some of this confusion is because you are misreading the directions. 2 teaspoons max per gallon of FRESH water. Let stand until layers form. A white crust you skim. The clear you pour off an KEEP leaving the cloudy in the discard.

OK... to be clear... I understand that it is fresh water. I make 2 liters of RO/DI water and make my supplement with that.

 

[Heather w]

Kent Marine's Kalkwrasser states:

"2 TSP per gallon of water".

In a 30 gallon tank, that measures out to 10 ounces ( approximately 1/3 liter if my math is right).
Is that daily?

It sounds like a lot.

Typical calcium levels in my tank are around 400-440 24 hours after a water change. They are usually around 300-360 before a water change (weekly).

I plan on dosing to keep the calcium in the 400-440 range throughout the week.

Thoughts?

 

[jason2459]

I think some of this confusion is because you are misreading the directions. 2 teaspoons max per gallon of FRESH water. Let stand until layers form. A white crust you skim. The clear you pour off an KEEP leaving the cloudy in the discard.

Depends on how you dose. I use a still water reservoir aka a clear plastic tote with a lid.

The crust on top protects what's underneith from more CO2. The clear limewater is dosed by having the tube a few inches off the bottom. The lower settled slurry is reused the next time the tote is filled.