Fish Died???

[Jess18]

I think it's highly unlikely ich or velvet would outlast the 76 days without something else coming into the tank, introducing them.

I think draining the tank and using ammonia is an option in your case as all you would lose is bacteria. However, by the time you would cycle it again it probably wouldn't save time.

If you do go that route with ammonia, rinse the tank thoroughly with rodi water afterwards.

Also, to clarify with prazipro and general cure. They treat flukes and worms, not velvet or ich.

Yes unlikely but still a possibility from what I understand?

Just to be clear, there are no fish, inverts or corals in my tank so maybe waiting 76 days is not such a good idea??

Can you explain the ammonia route??

Yes I understand what prazipro is for as mentioned above, thanks!

 

[GBRsouth]

Yes I am aware the Prazipro will not cure ich but I've been reading on correct Quarantine methods that Crabs posted above and on one of the posts the guy mentioned he doses all new fish with Prazipro first then Cupramine.. I have a QT ready to go, just trying to get things straight before I do anything. It's a pretty steep learning curve..

Treat for any obvious illness first. If there is no obvious illness, prazi is a shorter treatment in time than copper. (Not a good idea to treat both at once due to reacting with each other.)

 

[GBRsouth]

Yes unlikely but still a possibility from what I understand?

Just to be clear, there are no fish, inverts or corals in my tank so maybe waiting 76 days is not such a good idea??

Can you explain the ammonia route??

Yes I understand what prazipro is for as mentioned above, thanks!

The ammonia route is diluting ammonia in water and using it to wash all surfaces of the aquarium to kill any living thing. Then allow to dry fully. Then thoroughly rinse in rodi water.

Parasites encase themselves on surfaces in a calcified cover. So it helps to wash surfaces in vinegar to break this down and then rinse before washing down with ammonia.

 

[Jess18]

Treat for any obvious illness first. If there is no obvious illness, prazi is a shorter treatment in time than copper. (Not a good idea to treat both at once due to reacting with each other.)

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/

...from above that crabs posted:

"
All but two diseases - ich and flukes - will usually show themselves with visible symptoms within 1 month of QT. Ich may or may not have visible symptoms (white “sprinkles” on the fish), and flukes rarely are seen unless the fish is afflicted by Neobenedenia or badly infected (with cloudy eyes). However, both will usually have behavioral symptoms such as scratching, flashing, twitching and heavy breathing. Prophylactic treatment is a wise course for those with hectic schedules or not overly observant. It involves just treating for ich & flukes, whether or not the fish actually have them.

I give the fish a few days to recuperate and try to get him eating. Once he’s eaten for two consecutive days, I begin Prazipro treatment - dose once, wait 5-7 days, do a 20-25% water change and then repeat dosage. Five days later I do another 20-25% water change and run activated carbon for 24 hours. After removing the carbon, I begin either Chloroquine phosphate or copper treatment for 30 days. After that, the fish should be ready for the DT - so long as he’s eating, looks healthy and isn’t displaying symptoms of any disease."

Seems to make sense to treat for both just in case??

 

[Jess18]

The ammonia route is diluting ammonia in water and using it to wash all surfaces of the aquarium to kill any living thing. Then allow to dry fully. Then thoroughly rinse in rodi water.

Parasites encase themselves on surfaces in a calcified cover. So it helps to wash surfaces in vinegar to break this down and then rinse before washing down with ammonia.

What about bleach instead of ammonia maybe??

My only worry is that the parasite is deep inside my rocks and the bleach / ammonia won't get to them??

 

[lapin]

What about bleach instead of ammonia maybe??

My only worry is that the parasite is deep inside my rocks and the bleach / ammonia won't get to them??

A bleach solution will work as well as an ammonia solution for all hard surfaces.
Surfaces like rock, water can seep deep into them. The only sure way is to soak them in a solution for days to allow for the bleach or ammonia to work. To me it would be easyier to let the tank run fallow for the 76 days. 30 days before the 76 days are up, get a couple of small fish. Do the TTM method and every 5th day dose prazi. After 14 days they will be ich and fluke free. You can observe them for the remaining 16 days. Most symptoms of other disease should show up by then. If they have some other disease then you can treat that. If not plop them in the display tank.
I would not expose my fish to copper unless it was the last resort.

 

[GBRsouth]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/

...from above that crabs posted:

"
All but two diseases - ich and flukes - will usually show themselves with visible symptoms within 1 month of QT. Ich may or may not have visible symptoms (white “sprinkles” on the fish), and flukes rarely are seen unless the fish is afflicted by Neobenedenia or badly infected (with cloudy eyes). However, both will usually have behavioral symptoms such as scratching, flashing, twitching and heavy breathing. Prophylactic treatment is a wise course for those with hectic schedules or not overly observant. It involves just treating for ich & flukes, whether or not the fish actually have them.

I give the fish a few days to recuperate and try to get him eating. Once he’s eaten for two consecutive days, I begin Prazipro treatment - dose once, wait 5-7 days, do a 20-25% water change and then repeat dosage. Five days later I do another 20-25% water change and run activated carbon for 24 hours. After removing the carbon, I begin either Chloroquine phosphate or copper treatment for 30 days. After that, the fish should be ready for the DT - so long as he’s eating, looks healthy and isn’t displaying symptoms of any disease."

Seems to make sense to treat for both just in case??

Yes, treat for both but note in the above quote that carbon is used after prazipro to remove it before commencing copper or cp.

 

[GBRsouth]

What about bleach instead of ammonia maybe??

My only worry is that the parasite is deep inside my rocks and the bleach / ammonia won't get to them??

That is why I prefer the 76 day fishless time period, to starve out the parasites. If you read through the articles by Humblefish that crabs sent you, you will find research about the maximum lifecycle for the ich parasite. It is well below the 76 days.

 

[Jess18]

Okay, thanks to everyone for the input. I think after much consideration I will wait it out as it's probably my best option right now.

I've purchased a 64l (16.9g) QT and the plan is to dose with prazipro or similar first then with copper cupramine. The filter that came with my QT tank is below and has a carbon sponge so here's the plan:

Remove carbon filter before dosing of prazipro
Put carbon filter back in before commencing copper cupramine.

My question is do I remove it again before dosing with copper??

also regarding the DT, will the bacteria survive in there for the 70 days or do I need to add food??

Here's a pick of the QT filter, do ye think the carbon in this filter will do the job??

 

[GBRsouth]

Your plan looks good. And yes, you need to remove the carbon during copper treatment.

After copper treatment the filter would not be suitable for inverts until all filter media is removed, the filter thoroughly cleaned with vinegar to remove the copper and thoroughly rinsed. Then all filter media replaced with new media.

Your bacteria do need a food source during the 76 day fallow period. You could use a small amount of flake food or up to 2ppm a day of pure ammonia as a food source for them.

Your filter's carbon should be fine for removing the meds after treatment. Ideally, replace the carbon after removing the prazipro before using again to remove copper as prazipro can react with copper adversely.

Best of luck with your fallow and your qt treatments. Hope all goes well for you.

 

[Jess18]

Ok, so the QT tank has been up and running for 3 days now, I have 2 x clownfish and another fish recommend by my LFS, came down this morning only to find a dead fish again... this is soooooo frustrating.. anyone know what type of fish this is?? I think the LFS store is a joke to be fair.. everything they say is the complete opposite of what I hear everywhere else.

Told them I was sure I had an ich infestation in my DT and he told me to turn the lights off for 2 weeks and then it would be good to go again???

asked him for a hardy fish to go with the 2 clownfish and he recommended the one below that is now dead.

 

[NewbieReefer11]

Hi Jess18 could you please post your parameters.
Also please include temp and salinity.

 

[NewbieReefer11]

Ok, so the QT tank has been up and running for 3 days now, I have 2 x clownfish and another fish recommend by my LFS, came down this morning only to find a dead fish again... this is soooooo frustrating.. anyone know what type of fish this is?? I think the LFS store is a joke to be fair.. everything they say is the complete opposite of what I hear everywhere else.

Told them I was sure I had an ich infestation in my DT and he told me to turn the lights off for 2 weeks and then it would be good to go again???

asked him for a hardy fish to go with the 2 clownfish and he recommended the one below that is now dead.

I also strongly recommend that you take it easy for a while.
If you keep rushing around you will most likely just lose more fish.

Calm down and do reasearch for a few hours a day and you will gain a lot more success and enjoyment from this hobby.

 

[lapin]

Not to be a .... But you need to stop throwing your money away with new fish unless they are for dinner. Your new fish did not die from disease over night. Something is wrong with your QT procedure. What was the temp of the QT? Did you acclimate the fish? What is the salintiy of the QT? What does your LFS keep its salinity at? What is your ammonia level? What is your alkalinity? What alkalinity does your LFS keep its fish at? What chemicals have you added to the QT ? Did you clean it with something? Are you using that canister filter? Did you clean it with something? Where are you getting your water? Lots for us to guess at. More info will help us and you. Let us help you and try not to waste any more money by going to that LFS until we get this figured out. I would ask them what their refund policy is. Maybe you can get money back or credit for dry goods. I would not buy fish from them ever again.

 

[Jess18]

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression but "rushing around" is the last thing I'm doing, I have taken the time to do as much research as possible but it's difficult when one person tells you one thing and another says something totally different...

Ok so yes I acclimate the fish, I open the bag and leave it float in the QT water for approx 1 hr, adding water from QT tank to bag slowly over the hr before adding fish to QT.

Salinity is 35ppt as recommended on the salt I use: Royal Nature, Advanced Pro Formula. I'm beginning to think my refractometer is not calibrated properly though as it says to add 1kg of salt per 30litres of water to achieve the 35ppt salinity, however I always have to add more, I calibrated the refractometer with reagents calibration fluid by the way. Going to the LFS tomorrow to double check the calibration against theirs. I plan on lowering the salinity slowly as I think 35ppt is too high for fish only.

Temp is 24°C and ammonia is zero. See pics below.

No chemicals added to the QT as I wanted them to settle in for a week or two before doing so, again I'm in no rush here and I'm happy to keep these in the QT Tank for 6-8 weeks as my DT is unusable right now anyway.

Yes, I use a canister filter, did not clean it with anything.

I'm using RO water and test with a TDS meter, the lowest I can seem to get it anywhere from 7-12. Pics of RO unit below.

The thing with the LFS is, it's the only LFS in my city so it kinda sucks...

Right now as look at the clownfish one of them seems happy enough swimming around and te other is at the bottom left corner all day.

 

[NewbieReefer11]

Well the fact that you bought the qt a day ago and then put fish in it almost straight away implies that you are rushing.

 

[lapin]

Im at a loss for whats going on. If you are running a filter which should supply oxygen to the water thru water movement. You have no Ammonia or Nitrite in the QT tank then it has to be some other chemical that would kill fish that are healthy over night. I dont think the clowns killed it. Im not sure what is in the water that the ro filter is not removing. Best of luck with the 2 clowns you have in QT.

 

[Jess18]

Well the fact that you bought the qt a day ago and then put fish in it almost straight away implies that you are rushing.

I actually purchased the QT approx 2 weeks ago and you would have known that if you took the time to read the thread so really who is rushing into things here, you or me??

 

[Jess18]

Im at a loss for whats going on. If you are running a filter which should supply oxygen to the water thru water movement. You have no Ammonia or Nitrite in the QT tank then it has to be some other chemical that would kill fish that are healthy over night. I dont think the clowns killed it. Im not sure what is in the water that the ro filter is not removing. Best of luck with the 2 clowns you have in QT.

I'm also at a loss here as everything seems fine and that is the frustrating part of it.

On a positive note, the 2 clowns seem to be doing fine this morning and hopefully they will stay that way.

Do you know what type of fish that purple one above was??

 

[GBRsouth]

I think your fish was a purple dottyback. But @eatbreakfast can give a more accurate id than me.