GHA making a comeback?

[Harrison Gordon]

I have a fear of GHA -- goosebumps and everything -- and I am worried that if I don't remove what I'm seeing now, that this could happen again:

That was last summer, after I went away for a month. At the time I was running biopellets and had been for three months.

For the past 8 or so months, everything was great and I barely saw any algae except for this slimy brown stuff that otherwise looks like coralline and is, besides impossible to get rid of, not much of a nuisance to me. However there are now emerging little patches of GHA on the tops of many of the rocks in my tank, like this:

It doesn't get much longer than that in other places; the only way I've found to remove it is with a screwdriver and a lot of hard work. I actually just finished scraping a bit off of a slab of rock on top of everything else, and it took me about an hour for these few tiny little patches. On top of that, I had to rinse thoroughly with freshwater (especially since there was this single bubble algae that I accidentally popped), and it killed two of my brittle stars! It was so sad......watching them go down the drain. And I know I have stars in the rock pictured above as well, the only other rock easily accessible without dismantling the whole aquascape. I really don't want to have to kill them, but I don't want to leave the algae there and when I come back in a month this summer be tearing my own hair out.

Right now, phosphate is about 0 and nitrate about 20, down from maybe 30 a couple weeks ago. Since January, I've been running GFO with auto water changes, 1 gallon every day, but when I noticed more algae (particularly on the glass and cyano in the sand) I set it for two gallons a day. (75 gal tank, 30 gal sump). I also switched back to biopellets a couple weeks ago since the nitrates were on the higher side, thinking it could be a cause of algae. But now that I'm seeing some GHA, I gotta know, should I kill a bunch of beneficial stuff so that I can scrape off the patches, or hope it goes away as the params change? Here's the full tank now:

I run 4 of the 6 t5 bulbs from 2 til 8, the other two 8 til 8:30. I just really want to kick this in the butt if I should, in the early stages, before what the first image shows happens again when I go away--because there won't be anyone to sit there with a screwdriver and pick at every single nub of hair algae then. Or, should I just try to get the nitrates back down with the biopellets; or should I purchase something like no3po4-x?

Thanks if you have a suggestion!

 

[brandon429]

Lift out the rocks, and kill it before it spreads. I used to use fire/windproof grill lighter then switched to peroxide, externally, because we've saved ten thousand tanks with it. And logged it in threads

Others choose other means


after the rocks are clean, you begin addressing cause. or dosing things into the water as kill meds.

or testing and reacting, or installing reactors...all that is in the clean condition if you want opposite outcome from what the masses get

Failure to work in this order of ops is the sole reason for gha tank loss. The entire hobby advises the opposite: let your tank invade, it's natural, and then hopefully undo itself...you know that doesn't work for all. Direct kill of target when you see it, works for all.

Human hesitation causes algae invasion, not the plant ~

Here's the gha cycle in nature, on a real reef:
Algae grows because it's a reef, not due to a param. All reefs grow algae. A parrotfish bites off the algae, takes rock with it, poops sand. That bite spot now has no algae, immediately.

It then regrows as long as water is around, fast at some times, slow at others.

Make your algae gone immediately like a parrotfish= no algae can takeover. Anyone with a gha challenge chose for it to be that way, your conscience is advising you to not choose that way, we should do the small still voice mode because no harm comes to your tank when it's not invaded with algae, even though your tank didn't automatically select for that lucky condition first go. You can opt out of a tank invasion with an easy, open rock scape like what you have. Your invasion is low, you are acting early. I have a thread of a hundred people who'd trade to be in your shoes if could be

 

[LiveWire]

I may be wrong @Harrison Gordon but that looks like Bryopsis to me. Let me know what you think.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Bryopsis&FORM=HDRSC2

 

[Harrison Gordon]

Lift out the rocks, and kill it before it spreads. I used to use fire/windproof grill lighter then switched to peroxide, externally, because we've saved ten thousand tanks with it. And logged it in threads

Others choose other means


after the rocks are clean, you begin addressing cause. or dosing things into the water as kill meds.

or testing and reacting, or installing reactors...all that is in the clean condition if you want opposite outcome from what the masses get

Failure to work in this order of ops is the sole reason for gha tank loss. The entire hobby advises the opposite: let your tank invade, it's natural, and then hopefully undo itself...you know that doesn't work for all. Direct kill of target when you see it, works for all.

Human hesitation causes algae invasion, not the plant ~

Here's the gha cycle in nature, on a real reef:
Algae grows because it's a reef, not due to a param. All reefs grow algae. A parrotfish bites off the algae, takes rock with it, poops sand. That bite spot now has no algae, immediately.

It then regrows as long as water is around, fast at some times, slow at others.

Make your algae gone immediately like a parrotfish= no algae can takeover. Anyone with a gha challenge chose for it to be that way, your conscience is advising you to not choose that way, we should do the small still voice mode because no harm comes to your tank when it's not invaded with algae, even though your tank didn't automatically select for that lucky condition first go. You can opt out of a tank invasion with an easy, open rock scape like what you have. Your invasion is low, you are acting early. I have a thread of a hundred people who'd trade to be in your shoes if could be

Thanks Brandon! I guess I shall begin killing starfish. I'm gonna try to get out as many as possible, I love the brittles, but everything else I don't care about (aka asteas, bristle worms, etc.). I'll spend some time researching methods now, maybe peroxide like you've said. If that gets rid of the brown algae, I'm in for that, although I'm guessing it would also take lots of coralline with it too.

I have a thread about my palys, they have spread very quickly across 3 rocks, and so if I'm killing all the algae, what's going to happen to the palythoas, and how could it affect my health? (Even as early on as when I remove one rock but not the other and it rips two apart from each other).

Thanks so much!

 

[Harrison Gordon]

I may be wrong @Harrison Gordon but that looks like Bryopsis to me. Let me know what you think.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Bryopsis&FORM=HDRSC2

Good ideas from the pic I posted, but no, it's definitely a from of GHA -- just stubby and tough, really tough.

 

[brandon429]

hey if you are having star issues I would export them fully not kill internally just to clarify

that peroxide is for spot work only, not like a pour or a dip. good to brainstorm/detail that before application so it wont affect coralline agreed. the knifing part is where you dislodge the algae, usually it wont be rooted in the coralline so you wont have to scrape that part clean to rid the algae and unanchor it.

When its cleaned off by metal, rasp with a knife tip (which is dislodging the anchors, mere brushing leaves the anchors in place to regrow) you apply the peroxide with a dropper, or needle, something pinpointed and just wet the area/let sit in the air a few mins, rinse off with saltwater and put back.

we use the peroxide where it only contacts the target area, not the massive nontarget surface of those fine rocks. That's why dips, meds, and water actions aren't ideal. 10% of your rock surface is in challenge, don't treat 100% of the tank is my way.

lifting the rocks up and out of the water allows you to remove anything you want, hitchhiker stars if that's the case, without things polluting your tank. while this algae is low, accessible, you want it killed externally vs adding something to your water and hoping that works, over time, and then the algae just dies and rots inside if you are lucky enough to have the treatment work.

we cause the clean condition rock quickly.

nobody says you have to do your whole tank, experiment with one rock alone and keep comparing it to others to see which is better. a one-rock test is no big commit, and will stand out well compared to the others as you evaluate options

additionally, nobody says this has to be the enduring way you manage the tank that's what is so neat about a test rock and actual peroxide rasp kill, its low level modeling that doesn't affect the whole system at all. You are simply responding to an invader that will darn sure take over if you don't do something, so we can act decisively w no problem, then do all the artistic stuff later, as preventative.

that order of ops will prevent invasion.

 

[Harrison Gordon]

hey if you are having star issues I would export them fully not kill internally just to clarify

that peroxide is for spot work only, not like a pour or a dip. good to brainstorm/detail that before application so it wont affect coralline agreed. the knifing part is where you dislodge the algae, usually it wont be rooted in the coralline so you wont have to scrape that part clean to rid the algae and unanchor it.

When its cleaned off by metal, rasp with a knife tip (which is dislodging the anchors, mere brushing leaves the anchors in place to regrow) you apply the peroxide with a dropper, or needle, something pinpointed and just wet the area/let sit in the air a few mins, rinse off with saltwater and put back.

we use the peroxide where it only contacts the target area, not the massive nontarget surface of those fine rocks. That's why dips, meds, and water actions aren't ideal. 10% of your rock surface is in challenge, don't treat 100% of the tank is my way.

lifting the rocks up and out of the water allows you to remove anything you want, hitchhiker stars if that's the case, without things polluting your tank. while this algae is low, accessible, you want it killed externally vs adding something to your water and hoping that works, over time, and then the algae just dies and rots inside if you are lucky enough to have the treatment work.

we cause the clean condition rock quickly.

nobody says you have to do your whole tank, experiment with one rock alone and keep comparing it to others to see which is better. a one-rock test is no big commit, and will stand out well compared to the others as you evaluate options

additionally, nobody says this has to be the enduring way you manage the tank that's what is so neat about a test rock and actual peroxide rasp kill, its low level modeling that doesn't affect the whole system at all. You are simply responding to an invader that will darn sure take over if you don't do something, so we can act decisively w no problem, then do all the artistic stuff later, as preventative.

that order of ops will prevent invasion.

Yeah, so I will probably order some of the 35% peroxide since that seems to be what people use. The algae isn't actually spreading quickly it seems, but it is spreading. I have to admit, while I think right now there isn't much algae in my tank at all, most of the visible rock surface is covered in that brown algae so I might just have to take a test rock out and go over a lot of the surface (maybe on the second, the first smaller amount to make sure there aren't any bad reactions in tank). Maybe I will cut down on pellets, and do more frozen (I usually do dry in morning and frozen at night).

Otherwise, do you think it's a good idea to switch from GFO to biopellets, or should I just set my water change system to swap like 70 gallons and put back the GFO? I don't really have much phosphate at all, so the algae that I do have which doesn't grow fast (except the cyano on the sand that sort of stops growing at a certain point) must be coming from nitrates from fish poop.....after all, when I clean the glass all that I think goes down the drain, but the fish can make some nasty stuff.

What's your opinion on long-term nutrient removal?

BTW I dislike the asterina stars but I like the brittle stars, I've killed like 6 and I feel terrible

 

[brandon429]

I hate to load down your post w giant threads but it’s important to show work thread patterns. My take on reefing comes 20% from my system studied at home and 80% from threads where other people report outcomes to a given method all in one place for years in the same thread. I learn by patterns coming from bulk posts that run years and years, then take what works back home to my own reef all in an attempt to make my reef live as long as possible. This is my opinion based on that madness:

Long term nutrient removal is nuanced reefing it’s not core reefing. Much like tanks, some people reef in a square aquarium and some people reef the same corals in a fishbowl, the container is a nuance noncritical to coral growth and health (our goal)

Regarding nutrient control, I never measure it. You’ll never see me taking nitrate or phosphate readings to fix aquariums or keep my own, tests mislead and cause hesitation. We’re anti hesitation in all my posts, so I’m at odds with reef testing beyond Seneye, salinity and temp lol (and this keeps friendships tested in the chem forum heh). There are too many ways of controlling nutrients to advise a nuanced method as best, must choose and run for a while to see what works. Hand killing of targets continues regardless of how well your lucky preventatives perform.

What I do to manage nutrients is manage clouding. Keep no zone in your aquarium that if disturbed, casts out a cloud of crud into the water. This is feed for every invasion in reefing, and when moving tanks or accessing sandbeds, it’s the difference between life and death:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445

My personal take on algae, rock surgery, and a thread of nine years work in the matter in another post here
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/struggling-with-algae.617273/#post-6190531

I don’t have a wa

 

[brandon429]

Your use of a screw driver in post one made my morning. The way you are inclined to prevent losing your aquarium seems to be the only way that actually works, barbarism wins again until a better way is logged ~ even the peroxide step is a nuanced cheat but it works so good. If you run the test rock method w you take pics we can use to see before and after on the test rock

 

[Harrison Gordon]

I hate to load down your post w giant threads but it’s important to show work thread patterns. My take on reefing comes 20% from my system studied at home and 80% from threads where other people report outcomes to a given method all in one place for years in the same thread. I learn by patterns coming from bulk posts that run years and years, then take what works back home to my own reef all in an attempt to make my reef live as long as possible. This is my opinion based on that madness:

Long term nutrient removal is nuanced reefing it’s not core reefing. Much like tanks, some people reef in a square aquarium and some people reef the same corals in a fishbowl, the container is a nuance noncritical to coral growth and health (our goal)

Regarding nutrient control, I never measure it. You’ll never see me taking nitrate or phosphate readings to fix aquariums or keep my own, tests mislead and cause hesitation. We’re anti hesitation in all my posts, so I’m at odds with reef testing beyond Seneye, salinity and temp lol (and this keeps friendships tested in the chem forum heh). There are too many ways of controlling nutrients to advise a nuanced method as best, must choose and run for a while to see what works. Hand killing of targets continues regardless of how well your lucky preventatives perform.

What I do to manage nutrients is manage clouding. Keep no zone in your aquarium that if disturbed, casts out a cloud of crud into the water. This is feed for every invasion in reefing, and when moving tanks or accessing sandbeds, it’s the difference between life and death:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445

My personal take on algae, rock surgery, and a thread of nine years work in the matter in another post here
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/struggling-with-algae.617273/#post-6190531

I don’t have a wa

Ok I read through a bunch of those threads for a while, but then I just felt like getting started with cleaning the tank. I decided that step 1 would be clean the glass, the sump, the lids, and the rest of the equipment. I haven't actually taken everything out of the sump and scrubbed it all since January. I haven't cleaned the back glass since last fall -- safe to say, now that I have cleaned it, that it was a literal refugium, oh my there was so much algae on there!

I have also, after really going up to my tank and getting my hands dirty, noticed just how much algae and what kinds of algae there are. I like my fish a lot, so I'm usually just looking at the fish. Safe to say, there's a lot of nasty in there, just covering the rock but in a way that it was only really visible a lot once I siphoned the sand and it got all stuck in the algae's strands. Basically what I've learned is that there are these types of algae on my rock: a slimy brownish red kind that covers most of what isn't coralline; a bright red kind that looks like paint; some cyano but mostly in the sand bed it grows back every time I siphon within a week;
and now that badder stuff--a fluffy, short GHA that covers a absolute crap ton of my rock right now, growing on top of corals and coralline; and the tough, stubby GHA that is much firmer--this kind is on some shells, some patches of rock, and on a Little Rock that is mostly zoas.
I can get rid of a fair amount of these algae with a toothbrush, but will I go to all that work to find out that the roots were left in place? Well anyways I don't have peroxide right this second, so I think ill clean the rest of the glass, toothbrush some rocks in-tank, a couple in a bucket because I have enough room for them, and then I will scrub the sump because why not, its dirty.

Basically I think this will be my step one, I still have to figure out how much GHA I can remove with toothbrush, and then if I see significant regrowth in the next week (I think most of this mustve come in the last couple, because I have been kinda distracted) then peroxide here I come. Overall this is the kind of algae that you have to look for, not the kind that is an eyesore every time you see the tank. But I have no doubt it could quickly turn into that.

Here are some wide angle, and some closeup pics, the first a before (last night) and the last an after (right now as I'm in the middle of doing some stuff):

 

[brandon429]

—-

 

[brandon429]

Reefmiser and Seabass pics

Became:

Seabass didn’t just melt all that algae in the tank it would have poisoned everything

SB manually cleaned, spot treated the clean condition rock. The bulk removal was not peroxide it was hand scrubbing off, peroxide just zaps that growback so nicely

 

[Harrison Gordon]

So I am on to the rocks I fit in the buckets, but basically I scrubbed off almost everything I could see. The tough stuff took some more time, at least in the places I got at it. I am really unsure how much of what I got rid of got caught on the rocks after I cleaned the glass, but either way, there was quite a bit of a coating. Am I on the right track, then? Do I finish cleaning everything, wait, and then peroxide the grow back?

Also do you have any idea what is with the brown stuff? You can clearly see a huge patch of it in my first pic of this morning, to the right of the big slab of rock on top. Is it worth zapping that stuff out? (A toothbrush is a joke to it)

And finally, is it true that the process you recommend is a) drop some peroxide on the algae externally and rinse in saltwater afterwards before returning to tank, b) when you're done with the rocks, dose peroxide on the whole tank?

And how does peroxide affect the beneficial bacteria?

Thanks so much for your help!

 

[Saveafish]

Looks more like turf algae.

EDIT. In the first pics. Be noted I mean first group of pics.

 

[Harrison Gordon]

Looks more like turf algae.

EDIT. In the first pics. Be noted I mean first group of pics.

Yeah you're right. I guess I forgot, because I had it a year ago (first picture in thread like you said) but then replaced all rock and sand and scrubbed everything else clean. No idea how it sunddenly came back. But I'm only seeing it in small patches right now, hopefully I can keep it that way, peroxide on the way, but most of what I scrubbed off yesterday was a very short, fluffy, loose hair algae that was not only covering lots of the rocks but also the back glass.

I still have to spot treat some of the rocks with peroxide, probs only for the turf algae, hopefully I can get all out but I know for a fact unless I disassemble entire aquascape that there may be some that won't make the cut. What about dosing the entire tank with the peroxide, small dose, to at the very least loosen that algae for brushing off....?

Thanks,
Harrison

 

[Harrison Gordon]

Just thought I'd update since it's been a while.
Long story short, I built an algae scrubber and installed it in my tank. Then I went away for a month, two weeks of which I decreased the hours of lighting to 2 a day.
When I returned, the tank was spotless. The fish guys obviously weren't even needing to scrap the glass because there was nothing in even the deepest, hardest to reach places in the tank.
I recently pulled a bunch of algae from the unit, and upgraded the lights to 4 hrs/day. The sand is turning a light brown, but I'm not surprised. Where there was turf algae, there is either very very little now or you cannot even see it--but that may change as I increase the lights when the scrubber matures.