Help - Sponge Killing Corals

[naterealbig]

3% peroxide is baby water

35% is man water you should score some at a natural foods market, don't get in the eye it will permanently blind, and do surgery over and over on all frags with it until you find a preventative. You can be the remover in the mean time

Lift frag, use a knife point to debride away the target rinsing in sw

Apply 35% dabbed on clean surfaces several times, rinse and put back over and over until you find a preventative.

Will acquire man-water immediately.

 

[naterealbig]

lol so basically.... the sponge will grow back. i've done all the above and still grew back, a microscopic piece of sponge will still make it through all of that and spread again unfortunately.

Have you tried the man water?

 

[naterealbig]

Sure it was a sponge?

Almost certainly. Per @Tired 's "test" in your linked thread, it did not respond at all to touch. Easily disintegrated upon touching (what made/makes it so tricky - I believe this trait is why it spreads with relative ease.

Interestingly, you mentioned feeding Reef Roids - I also feed this (heavily) to Coral QT's.

I had what looks exactly like this several months ago.

Yep, saw the pictures and it's the same organism. Bet one of the vendors we have purchased from recently match.

The spires swayed in strong flow. Extremely difficult to remove.

Yep.

Experienced the same issue of it being noxious to corals.

Yep - easily dissolved a zoa frag in a matter of days. I could 'beat it back' with the tooth brush without destroying the coral, and bits left after cleaning grew back in a matter of hours. 3% H202 (boy water) did not seem to have any impact. (If nothing, the sponge drank it).

It was able to spread at an astonishing rate.

Yes, yes.

Ended up removing the entire rock it was on and threw it outside in the sun. Slathered any surviving coral frags with glue right up to the fleshy parts.

Performed similar action, by pulling racks/rocks out and scrubbing under tap water.

I'm glad you found a way to deal with whatever it is. Keep watching closely as I did find a tiny piece right on the sand bed a month after.

Will keep my eyes peeled for it. I just transferred that batch of corals to my display and have not seen any sign in display. I'm going to deep clean the QT system those corals were in, but am currently using it as a propagation system so can't sterilize everything. If it comes back, I'll post here.

 

[naterealbig]

This dude will maul your sponge. Not pick but eat like it was nori on a clip. I have tried several sponges for some of the dark places in my tank and he just gets right to it. Once hes done feed nori twice a day to curb his appetite for the more desirable stuff. I guarantee no more sponge prob

Got it, thanks. In my circumstance a fish is not an option as my coral QTs were (purposely) fishless.

 

[brandon429]

Any skin contact is a slight burn that turns your skin white for a day. Any corneal contact is instant blindness do be careful. They should never sell this stuff otc but they do. It's pit viper water he he

 

[JasonVH]

Yep, saw the pictures and it's the same organism. Bet one of the vendors we have purchased from recently match.

Yep - easily dissolved a zoa frag in a matter of days. I could 'beat it back' with the tooth brush without destroying the coral, and bits left after cleaning grew back in a matter of hours. 3% H202 (boy water) did not seem to have any impact. (If nothing, the sponge drank it).

Ha! Tempted to PM to see which vendor it was.

I suspect those who have not had the displeasure to deal with this thing understands how truly horrible it is. The responses telling you to get angel fishes or whatever don't get this.

The rate of growth is insane- you know it. Experienced the same. Does not need light- in my case, it also had patches on underside of rock in 'full shade'. Inaccessible to fish. It would have no problem being in deep nooks and crannies. At best, using fish as the sole solution would likely be only a band aid and leaving a chronic state of infestation, depending on the setup. Total and immediate eradication is the way to go.

I'm glad you discovered another way to deal with this. Been wondering if using F-Aiptasia type of mix would be another way to deal with it. Tricky when this thing is already mixed up with corals, though so your solution would be handy.

 

[Rick's Reviews]

No worries friend.



Yes, neither had any impact to the sponge at all. If necessary I will go through the gambit of 'normally-used' coral-safe pest treatments (iodine, melafix, Coral Rx, Bayer, etc, etc, but am trying to minimize the list by seeing what others have tried. I have been searching for threads and articles on these, but the only working solution based on these data was 'tossing' the rock/corals with the sponge on it. Not a single person in a thread or article found a chemical that worked consistently to kill the organism.



Ah - have read the natural predator advice as well. In my particular instance, the tank the sponge is in is intentionally fishless. Someone recommended dwarf angels, but between inconsistency of natural predation, acquiring a specimen, waiting for it to eat all of the sponges - including the ones I'd like to keep, and then having to re-quarantine the corals for 76 days, I'd be more apt to eradicate through brute force. Or even just chuck the corals (it's growing on several frags, including a $1k WWC Rainbow Blasto colony as of now....)

From reading this, correct me if I'm wrong...
Your looking to eradicate one type of sponge 'spieces' but also ensure your other 'spieces'of sponge survive... You looking for a chemical to remove or kill this one type of sponge 'species'

(You would rather use a chemical... over a fish/ natural predator that would eat all up.)

You have tried all manual removel of sponge, including removing affected rock and scrubbing in separate containers, isolating all frags in separate containers and manually removed, dip with peroxide, dry aired and used all chemicals available?

If all this is correct then I would suggest natural predators, it don't matter if it's a £10 frag or £100k frag, if from what you have described has all ended in failure... What other options do you have.....
Just my thoughts
But will be following to see chemicals Vs natural warfare

 

[Rick's Reviews]

Orange/tan sponge came in on a frag. Has spread to many spots in the tank.

It starts on frag plug and grows up and over the frag, smothering the coral and killing it.

Have tried:

1. Removing frag and let sit in air for 20 min. No effect.

2. Pouring non diluted hydrogen peroxide directly sponge. No effect.

3. Pouring fresh water directly on sponge. No effect.

4. "Peeling" off w tweezers. Does not peel off rock/frag. Breaks up easily - basically turns to dust when you touch it. Then grows back immediately.

Have about $6k worth of corals in this QT - don't want more to die.

Please help.

Pic of sponge currently killing Utter Chaos frag. Polyps have not opened in a week. This particular frag i dumped H202, ran fresh water on it, let it sit out of water, scrubbed it off with tooth brush. Two days later this is what it looks like.

Would love to see what $6k of corals look like in a fishless QT :/

 

[naterealbig]

Would love to see what $6k of corals look like in a fishless QT :/

Is this a call-out?

 

[Rick's Reviews]

Not really, more just about helping you with options in your aquarium

 

[brandon429]

anything other than directed reef dentistry is being passive. it's hoping for something vs causing it. you can see how powerful this strain is, so that commands immediate and sustained removal.

that frag is like a reef tooth, a reef dentist arms themself with manwater and goes in there with steel, a rasp like a dentist uses, a knife tip will work, an actual scalpel perhaps but something that forcefully scrapes away material to be rinsed off

never a brush, that pestles/smashes bits of target down into skeletal crevices

and they would debride the sponge off the surface in great detail while rinsing it away in saltwater, making the frag totally clean of any visual target. on the cleaned specimen, after complete mass removal then you apply the 35% and let it sit a while, hopefully cleaning up invisible leftover cells. then final rinse, and put back

if you had a zoanthid with that sponge on it, imo it would be tossed. the fleshy part of zoanthids and palys uptake and bind to benthic attachments and can serve as a permanent input source. you're dealing in a reef killer here, it's meanness time.

no I don't think it will cure it unless you get lucky, but it will 100% keep that mass at bay until you possibly get lucky on some preventative nobody is sure of

 

[brandon429]

I had a white strain of invasive sponge so intwined in my acan I had for six years I just threw out the entire frag. if that got into my rockwork my 17 yr old nano would be destroyed. it got to 17 by knowing when to be mean, and this is your time. *I actually have another separate acan with it but for some reason it's not as bad, when I do nano reef deep cleans I take out the frag tooth and do exactly the above, it buys me a few mos until regrowth then I do it again, one day I'll likely toss it. I'm out of 35% currently so I'm only using baby water on it lol, but you can bet back in the day I used 35% on reef offenders to great joy, it really helps as an amplification burn because you can target-apply it to rasped skeletal surfaces and avoid the actual flesh on the polyp in the case of stony corals infested with it. I have a child in the house currently so I can't use the 35%. I won't even store that in a home with a child...well perhaps in a locked gun safe would be ok. for now my 3% and rasping buys me 4 mos at a time so that's good enough currently.

 

[naterealbig]

From reading this, correct me if I'm wrong...
Your looking to eradicate one type of sponge 'spieces' but also ensure your other 'spieces'of sponge survive... You looking for a chemical to remove or kill this one type of sponge 'species'

Yes. Theoretically wouldn't be hard, with the relative ease of spot-treatment/dips, with an effective chemical. We do it regularly for pest algae and coral pests.

(You would rather use a chemical... over a fish/ natural predator that would eat all up.)

Spot-on.

You have tried all manual removel of sponge, including removing affected rock and scrubbing in separate containers, isolating all frags in separate containers and manually removed, dip with peroxide, dry aired and used all chemicals available?

Yes.

If all this is correct then I would suggest natural predators, it don't matter if it's a £10 frag or £100k frag, if from what you have described has all ended in failure... What other options do you have.....

I'm unwilling (under any circumstance) to add non-QT invertebrates/rock to my display. Adding a predatory fish to the QT system would dictate another 76 day QT period for the corals currently in QT. Likely much longer by the time I source the fish, verify that it can/will eat the sponge. Repeat if things don't work out round one.

Considering the risk that comes along with adding a known corallivore to a tank with LPS (both fleshy as well as smaller-polyped), SPS, and Softies, I haven't hit the risk:reward threshold just yet. I've managed to keep the sponge "at-bay" to this point, and will continue to do so until I have a better solution. If it literally becomes my only option left, of course I'll experiment with natural predation.

Was hoping to brainstorm new ideas with this thread.


Don't forget, here's where I'm at now:

Today I cannot find any trace of this sponge in my QT, and no other corals died with the exception of the polyps that I posted a picture of.

By happenstance, I frequent @brandon429 's work threads, and align well with his methods. In this situation, it seems to be working and I can up the ante with 30% H2O2 (I cannot stop laughing at "man water" vs the "boy water" I've been using). This is a viable option for me it seems, as long as the sponge isn't growing directly on the coral tissue (on the Utter Chaos Palys, it was). The sponge does not seem to seek the corals specifically (thank goodness). It shows up in random spots around the QT tank, and demonstrably kills the coral through allelopathy or consumption (I'm leaning toward allelopathy, of course).

Apply 35% dabbed on clean surfaces several times, rinse and put back over and over until you find a preventative.

Just my thoughts
But will be following to see chemicals Vs natural warfare

Time-on-task is working for the moment. Will keep the thread updated.

 

[Rick's Reviews]

Yes. Theoretically wouldn't be hard, with the relative ease of spot-treatment/dips, with an effective chemical. We do it regularly for pest algae and coral pests.



Spot-on.



Yes.



I'm unwilling (under any circumstance) to add non-QT invertebrates/rock to my display. Adding a predatory fish to the QT system would dictate another 76 day QT period for the corals currently in QT. Likely much longer by the time I source the fish, verify that it can/will eat the sponge. Repeat if things don't work out round one.

Considering the risk that comes along with adding a known corallivore to a tank with LPS (both fleshy as well as smaller-polyped), SPS, and Softies, I haven't hit the risk:reward threshold just yet. I've managed to keep the sponge "at-bay" to this point, and will continue to do so until I have a better solution. If it literally becomes my only option left, of course I'll experiment with natural predation.

Was hoping to brainstorm new ideas with this thread.


Don't forget, here's where I'm at now:


By happenstance, I frequent @brandon429 's work threads, and align well with his methods. In this situation, it seems to be working and I can up the ante with 30% H2O2 (I cannot stop laughing at "man water" vs the "boy water" I've been using). This is a viable option for me it seems, as long as the sponge isn't growing directly on the coral tissue (on the Utter Chaos Palys, it was). The sponge does not seem to seek the corals specifically (thank goodness). It shows up in random spots around the QT tank, and demonstrably kills the coral through allelopathy or consumption (I'm leaning toward allelopathy, of course).




Time-on-task is working for the moment. Will keep the thread updated.

Sounds great, and if your winning the battle then that's the best outcome for your aquarium. All corals

I guess your looking for a difinatative answer so I will leave it at that as it's beyond my expertise. If anything I hope my thoughts helped , I'll follow and look forward to your updates

 

[naterealbig]

Ha! Tempted to PM to see which vendor it was.

To be fair, the system it came from likely had less particulate matter, and natural predators... The "fishless" part of my QT process, dictates heavy direct coral feeding to maintain health and coloration. This certainly encourages the growth of this animal.

I suspect those who have not had the displeasure to deal with this thing understands how truly horrible it is. The responses telling you to get angel fishes or whatever don't get this.

Yes, un-holy terror is a good descriptor. Adding fish is definitely the greater evil here. I've tried myself as well as have read about too many natural predators simply not working (or not working on the first try). Mythrax Crabs/Bubble Algae, Peppermint Shimp/Aiptasia, Copperbands/Aiptasia, Nudi's/Aiptasia, Filefish/Aiptasia, Wrasses/Flatworms, Pipefish/Redbugs, and the list goes on. Even if I hit the jackpot first try (and, the predator did not begin eating other corals - thinking File Fish, Fox Face, Mitrax, etc), the predators never truly eradicate the pests; they simply assist in 'pest-management' - which I do not buy into. Yes, I'm the guy that kills every Vermetid, every Aiptasia, every Bubble of Bubble Algae. Most say it's impossible, but with a 76 day QT period, you have a big window to work with. A few minutes a day and a lot of superglue has kept everything on the 'straight and narrow'. I've dealt with all of these pests first hand, and I will challenge anyone that says otherwise that the effort greatly outweighs watching a tank full of prized fish or corals whither away as you 'helplessly' watch, all-the-while contemplating the relatively minor effort that could have been put up front to prevent the disaster.

The rate of growth is insane- you know it. Experienced the same.

Yes, takes the wind out of you when you wake up the next morning and there is sponge tissue in all of the places you scrubbed it off as well as new areas. I you cannot 'peel' this particular sponge off what it's on like I have for some sponges before. This one literally turns into dust when you touch it (potentially just assisting proliferation).

Does not need light- in my case, it also had patches on underside of rock in 'full shade'. Inaccessible to fish.

Nope. Does not need light, and is not impaired by bright light either as many sponges. This one has grown more on light-exposed rock surfaces - many directly under full spectrum lighting more than anywhere else.

I'm glad you discovered another way to deal with this. Been wondering if using F-Aiptasia type of mix would be another way to deal with it. Tricky when this thing is already mixed up with corals, though so your solution would be handy.

I do think this would be an option, and something I would try. I actually have some ready for the next outbreak. I would also try super glue, isopropyl alcohol, and CoralRx as well. The trick I think is killing it before it starts to touch the coral itself. If I had to guess, sensing 'competition' prompts increased aggression from the sponge.

Something else I will do it simply give the sponge fewer places to grow. I can disassemble and sterilize the QT relatively easily. Additionally, I will remove the majority of the rock in the QT, so it's easier to spot and treat new growth - I have found that it's simply not necessary other than for fish hiding spots or aesthetics - neither of which I am concerned with in this system.

When I find something that works consistently, I will post it here for sure.

 

[naterealbig]

anything other than directed reef dentistry is being passive. it's hoping for something vs causing it. you can see how powerful this strain is, so that commands immediate and sustained removal.

Great analogy, and you are 100% right.

that frag is like a reef tooth, a reef dentist arms themself with manwater and goes in there with steel, a rasp like a dentist uses, a knife tip will work, an actual scalpel perhaps but something that forcefully scrapes away material to be rinsed off

Agreed.

never a brush, that pestles/smashes bits of target down into skeletal crevices

Did not think of it this way, but it makes complete sense. Additionally, reduced control with brush bristles inevitably removes zooxanthella, weakening the coral and exacerbating the problem.

and they would debride the sponge off the surface in great detail while rinsing it away in saltwater, making the frag totally clean of any visual target. on the cleaned specimen, after complete mass removal then you apply the 35% and let it sit a while, hopefully cleaning up invisible leftover cells. then final rinse, and put back

Fair to assume that any coral tissue exposed to the 30% man water will perish?

if you had a zoanthid with that sponge on it, imo it would be tossed.

True... would be a tougher decision if it got ahold of my Stratospheres.....

the fleshy part of zoanthids and palys uptake and bind to benthic attachments and can serve as a permanent input source. you're dealing in a reef killer here, it's meanness time.

"Reef Killer" is accurate...

no I don't think it will cure it unless you get lucky, but it will 100% keep that mass at bay until you possibly get lucky on some preventative nobody is sure of

All I can hope for. Will continue to put in "the work".

 

[Tired]

This seems like less of a natural-control-vs-chemicals debate, and more of a natural-control-vs-just-plain-removal. 35% peroxide directly on the culprit isn't really any different than if you could physically rip it off without leaving anything behind.

I don't particularly like dosing poisons into a reef in hopes of getting rid of something, but killing the thing directly, with chemicals instead of scraping tools, is different. It's also what seems warranted here- that stuff's nasty.

 

[Rogueaquariums]

I have read this as well. In my particular circumstance, the quarantine this sponge is in is intentionally fishless.

I frequently broadcast feed Reef Chili and Amino Acids for food, which likely is helping this pest proliferate.

Unfortunately I am going through this issue with the liver sponge proliferating in my 600g. It was introduced two years ago when a fellow reefer gave me a colony of hammers. Nothing happened until three months ago where it slowly started spreading to where it is now. I turned my lights up some, turned flow down where I could and am going to try some natural predation as in a blue linkia starfish and a small army or tuxedo urchins and see if this has an effect before I resort to h202 or vinegar in small doses. It hasn’t affected my corals at all to this point but the rock work looks ugly.