HELP sump/refugium design

[TK_KW]

Hello everybody. As a newbie to salt water aquariums, I need advice. I'm currently in build process of 220g display, 100g sump/refugium set up. As I've been around in fresh water for awhile, but making switch to salt with new tank and setup.
I'm thinking of going with full Neptune system as I've heard great thinks about it. Power heads possibly their wave kit, or mp40s. I'm thinking Reef Octopus 3000int skimmer. Im going to use the Kessil H350 for refugium to grow Chaeto. What's everyone thoughts on my plan? Any additional ideas would be great. Here is a couple photos of the build and my sump design. Note: filter socks I'm going to leave in for a couple days maybe after a water change, then just remove them.

 

[RobZilla04]

Consider the space after the skimmer. That would be a good place to put either some rock rubble or marine pure brick/balls for added bacterial surface area. FWIW I've found a huge advantage to having as much surface area as possible to increase the bacteria diversity and population. This certainly helps when the display is heavily stocked and fed often. Just food for thought, otherwise nice setup and well done!

 

[TK_KW]

I had considered making space after skimmer another section. But as I've been researching, they say the more Chaeto you can grow the better. That was my only real thought of leaving it as refugium. Sry what is FWIW, pardon my newbie ignorance lol

 

[RobZilla04]

For What Its Worth

Chaeto can be a little tricky. I for one haven't been able to keep it in a refugium nor reactor, primarily because nutrient levels aren't high enough. I gave up on chaeto since I'm keeping a salt water aquarium, not harvesting water plants. Just something to keep in mind, you may end up not needing a refugium all together.

 

[scott11106]

at first look, I would consider having the return on one side and everything in line as one problem you may encounter is if you are accessing from one side primarily and trying to clean the skimmer weekly you would be reaching over refug, if i am reading it correctly, also remember that you will have lighting, heaters (2) and maybe a fan that will all be wired and or hanging above refug area.

Also one thing i learned after my build is to PLAN YOUR WIRING now as it becomes a mess fast and remember that things like apex probes have a definitive length that cannot be extended and powerheads also have specific lengths.

I really LOVE my APEX and wish i would have known what i know now for wiring and setup but it works great !!

feel free to ask any questions and check out my build thread as it had alot of data as i went through the process

 

[TK_KW]

at first look, I would consider having the return on one side and everything in line as one problem you may encounter is if you are accessing from one side primarily and trying to clean the skimmer weekly you would be reaching over refug, if i am reading it correctly, also remember that you will have lighting, heaters (2) and maybe a fan that will all be wired and or hanging above refug area.

Also one thing i learned after my build is to PLAN YOUR WIRING now as it becomes a mess fast and remember that things like apex probes have a definitive length that cannot be extended and powerheads also have specific lengths.

I really LOVE my APEX and wish i would have known what i know now for wiring and setup but it works great !!

feel free to ask any questions and check out my build thread as it had alot of data as i went through the process

Thanks for your advice. I had though of wiring issues, so apex is directly beside framing. So furthest thing will be the far power head. And I was thinking the 26 HD lights, daisy chained together. Is 26HD good light choice? Seems like people really like them.
I had though of sump going one end to the next, problem is that I want as much depth as possible in sump, but turns out, my skimmer will sit directly below a doubled up 2x6 in first section regardless the side it's on. So I started running with the design as shown. Unless there are other skimmers that can sit in some deeper water, dont know.
Apex seems like the right choice for me. What are your thoughts on there wave pumps? Some bad reviews of length of pump life, maybe first gen product?
I will most definitely be checking out your build thread. Thanks again, cheers.

 

[scott11106]

i have all things apex except i use varios 8 return pumps and i use vortec mp40's on display i love them and no wires in DT which I love but the downside is you cannot angle them if that is something you want to do.
As far as lighting I hear good things, i went with kessil and i have good growth but that is all i know as i personally don't own them.

also another item that I wish i did was have a larger ATO and Salt reservoir and i went with 50gal now but when doing changes and emergency stuff a bit larger would have been nice. on that note are you setting up for auto water changes? i recommend it greatly and i use a DOS to remove and add the water. my system does a 5gal water change per day and can go 10 days at a time which is nice when i go out of town, just some added ideas...

 

[TK_KW]

i have all things apex except i use varios 8 return pumps and i use vortec mp40's on display i love them and no wires in DT which I love but the downside is you cannot angle them if that is something you want to do.
As far as lighting I hear good things, i went with kessil and i have good growth but that is all i know as i personally don't own them.

also another item that I wish i did was have a larger ATO and Salt reservoir and i went with 50gal now but when doing changes and emergency stuff a bit larger would have been nice. on that note are you setting up for auto water changes? i recommend it greatly and i use a DOS to remove and add the water. my system does a 5gal water change per day and can go 10 days at a time which is nice when i go out of town, just some added ideas...

 

[MSB123]

Get the H380. Newer light, more power.
I love my apex. I am full apex and I also use MP40s with the WXM. I love their stuff. I use a refuge as as my primary source of nutrient control and I rarely (once every 6 months) do a water change. When I do, I do 25% of my water volume (55 gallons)

 

[TK_KW]

I'll take a look at the various 8 return pump, and I'd imagine I'd want to angle power heads, but honestly not sure as this is first saltwater build.
I plan to have two 55 gallon drums, one elevated with RODI water, act like a cistern with faucet over tub for washing, or filling,etc. And one with pre mixed salt water. The two will be plumbed together with transfer pump. As I want a reef tank, I was going to buy apex doser. So would you recommend a second doser for water change purpose? I have taken some interest to the auto water change. I still plan on doing normal percentage water changes, but the constant auto is a nice feature.
So do you think my 10 gallon ATO is good for evaporation. But also add doser with water change drawn straight from RODI cistern?
To note, on back wall im putting one of my fathers old 150g. Thst I got back in the family. So I was going to split it into two 75g. One for quaritine, one for.... well who knows.
Do you know of any short skimmers youd recommend, that would do what I'm looking for. I'm thinking I'll be medium stocked/heavy stocked at some point. Which slow is the name of the game I know. But that's my plan. I just want as much water volume as possible in sump/refugium.

 

[MSB123]

I'll take a look at the various 8 return pump, and I'd imagine I'd want to angle power heads, but honestly not sure as this is first saltwater build.
I plan to have two 55 gallon drums, one elevated with RODI water, act like a cistern with faucet over tub for washing, or filling,etc. And one with pre mixed salt water. The two will be plumbed together with transfer pump. As I want a reef tank, I was going to buy apex doser. So would you recommend a second doser for water change purpose? I have taken some interest to the auto water change. I still plan on doing normal percentage water changes, but the constant auto is a nice feature.
So do you think my 10 gallon ATO is good for evaporation. But also add doser with water change drawn straight from RODI cistern?
To note, on back wall im putting one of my fathers old 150g. Thst I got back in the family. So I was going to split it into two 75g. One for quaritine, one for.... well who knows.
Do you know of any short skimmers youd recommend, that would do what I'm looking for. I'm thinking I'll be medium stocked/heavy stocked at some point. Which slow is the name of the game I know. But that's my plan. I just want as much water volume as possible in sump/refugium.

I would get closer to a 25 gallon ATO. My 180 gallon tank uses about 5-7 Gallons a day. I am getting a 30 gallon ATO container so I have about 6 days of water

 

[TK_KW]

I would get closer to a 25 gallon ATO. My 180 gallon tank uses about 5-7 Gallons a day. I am getting a 30 gallon ATO container so I have about 6 days of water

Does the apex ATO use gravity or pump, honestly didn't look that close.at it yet as I'm still in build process. In theory could I pipe it straight from my 55 gallon RODI cistern?

 

[scott11106]

I'll take a look at the various 8 return pump, and I'd imagine I'd want to angle power heads, but honestly not sure as this is first saltwater build.
I plan to have two 55 gallon drums, one elevated with RODI water, act like a cistern with faucet over tub for washing, or filling,etc. And one with pre mixed salt water. The two will be plumbed together with transfer pump. As I want a reef tank, I was going to buy apex doser. So would you recommend a second doser for water change purpose? I have taken some interest to the auto water change. I still plan on doing normal percentage water changes, but the constant auto is a nice feature.
So do you think my 10 gallon ATO is good for evaporation. But also add doser with water change drawn straight from RODI cistern?
To note, on back wall im putting one of my fathers old 150g. Thst I got back in the family. So I was going to split it into two 75g. One for quaritine, one for.... well who knows.
Do you know of any short skimmers youd recommend, that would do what I'm looking for. I'm thinking I'll be medium stocked/heavy stocked at some point. Which slow is the name of the game I know. But that's my plan. I just want as much water volume as possible in sump/refugium.

you will not need to do a standard water change if you use a dos to do the water change, i use the apex ATO also and it works great also. my ATO and water change system has been flawless....not sure what the ATO area is for if you have a 55g RODI tank for fresh water?

 

[TK_KW]

you will not need to do a standard water change if you use a dos to do the water change, i use the apex ATO also and it works great also. my ATO and water change system has been flawless....not sure what the ATO area is for if you have a 55g RODI tank for fresh water?

Hey, so I guess maybe I have it wrong in my head. The 10 gallon was going to have apex ATO in it so slowly add water back that's been evaporated. Cistern was so I had water on hand at all times for washing, or water changes. So are you saying all I need is to have dos connected to cistern, and aside from constant water change, it keeps levels up? If that's the case then I dont require the ATO at all?
Also your build thread is amazing, and your cad drawing of the plumbing is fantastic, very similar to what I'm trying to do. I appreciate all your help

 

[scott11106]

Hey, so I guess maybe I have it wrong in my head. The 10 gallons was going to have apex ATO in it so slowly add water back that's been evaporated. The cistern was so I had water on hand at all times for washing or water changes. So are you saying all I need is to have dos connected to cistern, and aside from constant water change, it keeps levels up? If that's the case then I dont require the ATO at all?
Also, your build thread is amazing, and your cad drawing of the plumbing is fantastic, very similar to what I'm trying to do. I appreciate all your help

correct, your ATO will have a pump in the fresh cistern and replace evaporated water, the salt water cistern will have a dos 1/4" tube to pull whatever amount per day you want to "complete a water change" no special ATO area needed in your sump or anywhere.
I use the Apex ATO (but any will work) and place the sensor/float in the return section of the sump

 

[scott11106]

we can talk programming later but you will want to defer power to the ATO using the Apex so it is not kicking on every hour as that will wear out the pump faster. also by the way i really like the apexPUMP as i have tried a couple brands and they seem to be on the better side so far.

 

[Captain Quint]

@Tyler kieswetter your forethought and design are fantastic.

My only questions were going to be about your ATO reservoir being larger and whether you were going to use an internal or external return pump but it looks as though all this is being covered.

Welcome to R2R and keep the pics and progress coming, please. Thanks for sharing the pics for reference and the enjoyment of seeing the build.

I would definitely look into putting your build in for the 'Build Thread Contributor' banner.

___________________________________
Have a build thread? Start one here and claim your build thread badge here!

 

[TK_KW]

we can talk programming later but you will want to defer power to the ATO using the Apex so it is not kicking on every hour as that will wear out the pump faster. also by the way i really like the apexPUMP as i have tried a couple brands and they seem to be on the better side so far.[/QUOT
Sweet, so I understand fully now. Just finsished flooring in fish room, I'm also doing whole basement reno at moment so lots going on. My custom tank should be ready for end of Jan, cant wait. Starting to frame for the 150g this weekend. I'll keep you posted of progress, and I'm sure I'll have lots of questions. @Captain Quint thanks, I'm a very forward thinker, but when this is first saltwater build, I'd like to make sure it's as perfect as possible, the first time lol... I'll keep you guys all posted. Thanks again

 

[scott11106]

you may want to create a build thread and we can follow along, just post a link here and i will look forward to watching this build, it is looking great so far

 

[Captain Quint]

@Tyler kieswetter your tank build definitely deserves this.

Have a build thread? Start one here and claim your build thread badge here!