Help with a fish problem

[blaxsun]

Sorry about that and I realize QT is not perfect but wouldn't my remaining fish be struggling to? I guess they may start to soon right? I hope and pray not.

Thanks - it is what it is (lessons learned and applied). As has been already pointed out, there are several other factors (salinity, possible fish aggression) that are more likely in your scenario - but after a rash of unexplained deaths it never hurts to keep an eye on your other fish. Just in case.

 

[Tamberav]

Hello everyone, I have a 6 month old 65g DT with a 15g sump. I currently have 4 healthy fish in it. A square tail tang, Fairy Wrasse, Yellow Coris Wrasse and a Rohmboid Wrasse. There is a lot of rock scape and sand bottom for them. I recently tried to add 3 more fish to my tank that went through a complete 30 day QT process. They were a Melanaris Wrasse, Royal Gramma and a Firefish. They were properly acclimated and put in the DT. The tang would get close to the Melanarus Wrasse and posture with him side by side. There was no overt aggression or chase away. over the next 48 hours the new fish were eating well and swimming fine in the tank. The tang was still posturing with the wrasse to determine who the tank boss would be. Third day in the morning, the Melanarus is dead on the sand. He has no signs of being attacked or obvious fish disease. Fourth day my little Firefish is dead on the rocks and I notice the Gramma is in the top corner of the tank with the Fairy Wrasse shadowing him closely. He wont let him near the reef. That night the Gramma is sleeping in the sand outside of the rocks. Where before he was sleeping inside the rocks. It appeared as if he was not allowed into the rocks to sleep at night. Next morning, the Gramma is gone missing and now presumed dead.

It is like the 4 fish in the tank will not allow any new fish, big or small into the tank and the reef. I know fish claim territory but there is a lot of different hiding places and caves, out of sight areas. I am concerned now about trying to add any more fish to my tank. I figured I would have about 8 total, half small and half larger maybe 5" in my tank but now I don't think it is a good idea. I have en thought about adding 3 Damsels because I know they can defend themselves even with their small size.

There are plenty of instances where fish don't like each other and often there is aggression over territory but have I reached my reef limit now with only 4 fish? Would you try adding any more? I thought by adding 3 then the current fish would not just focus on one but instead it appears they did focus on the one and then the second and finally the third new fish.

Seeking some opinions and advice......thanks

Acclimation box for new fish. You leave them in there until resident fish stop posturing and get bored…. Then wait a few days extra and release at night.

Other issues.. if your LFS is the one doing the QT… well you can’t really trust anyone like yourself.

If there was a salinity difference more than 1-2 points, this could be an issue too.

 

[Lavey29]

Thanks - it is what it is (lessons learned and applied). As has been already pointed out, there are several other factors (salinity, possible fish aggression) that are more likely in your scenario - but after a rash of unexplained deaths it never hurts to keep an eye on your other fish. Just in case.

Yes and I am but what if this goes unexplained and the other 4 fish appear good over the next month would you classify the cause of death as fish aggression? Would you still try to add more fish to the tank?

 

[Lavey29]

Acclimation box for new fish. You leave them in there until resident fish stop posturing and get bored…. Then wait a few days extra and release at night.

Other issues.. if your LFS is the one doing the QT… well you can’t really trust anyone like yourself.

If there was a salinity difference more than 1-2 points, this could be an issue too.

Hard to get a 4 inch fast swimming wrasse to feel comfortable in a small side mounted box for multiple days.

 

[blaxsun]

Yes and I am but what if this goes unexplained and the other 4 fish appear good over the next month would you classify the cause of death as fish aggression? Would you still try to add more fish to the tank?

First and foremost I'd touch base with your LFS (as suggested). Second, I'd figure out how to deal with the salinity difference before adding any more fish. Third, I'd probably wait a few weeks to ensure nothing bad was inadvertently introduced to your tank (ie: keep an eye on your existing fish).

Hard to get a 4 inch fast swimming wrasse to feel comfortable in a small side mounted box for multiple days.

As opposed to carpet or hardwood flooring?

 

[Lavey29]

First and foremost I'd touch base with your LFS (as suggested). Second, I'd figure out how to deal with the salinity difference before adding any more fish. Third, I'd probably wait a few weeks to ensure nothing bad was inadvertently introduced to your tank (ie: keep an eye on your existing fish).

I don't even know if there is a salinity difference. Waiting on his email.

 

[Lavey29]

First and foremost I'd touch base with your LFS (as suggested). Second, I'd figure out how to deal with the salinity difference before adding any more fish. Third, I'd probably wait a few weeks to ensure nothing bad was inadvertently introduced to your tank (ie: keep an eye on your existing fish).


As opposed to carpet or hardwood flooring?

I've got a full mesh screen top. Never lost a carpet surfer before.

 

[Lavey29]

The gramma showed up this morning dead. Remaining 4 fish seem healthy and fine. Still waiting on vendor reply.

 

[Lavey29]

So $428 worth of 3 professionally QT fish dead in my tank in 5 days of introducing them to the existing 4 fish. Remaining fish. Inverts, corals all thriving.

Guess I'll wait a month or two and see if the aqua environment stays stable and may try to add a few fish again but don't know what to try now.

I was thinking maybe 3 blue damsels because they can defend themselves against aggression typically and maybe the wrasses and tang will leave them alone?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

So $428 worth of 3 professionally QT fish dead in my tank in 5 days of introducing them to the existing 4 fish. Remaining fish. Inverts, corals all thriving.

Guess I'll wait a month or two and see if the aqua environment stays stable and may try to add a few fish again but don't know what to try now.

I was thinking maybe 3 blue damsels because they can defend themselves against aggression typically and maybe the wrasses and tang will leave them alone?

Yes - wait some time to ensure those new fish didn't leave a legacy of disease, but I would avoid blue damsels. If you are talking about the common blue devil damsel, they are going to likely fight amongst themselves given some time together.

Jay

 

[Lavey29]

Yes - wait some time to ensure those new fish didn't leave a legacy of disease, but I would avoid blue damsels. If you are talking about the common blue devil damsel, they are going to likely fight amongst themselves given some time together.

Jay

Yes I'm guessing at least 2 months which is fine. They have these white tail blue damsels that are less aggressive and seem to do ok in small groups of 3.

 

[JayA]

Hello everyone, I have a 6 month old 65g DT with a 15g sump. I currently have 4 healthy fish in it. A square tail tang, Fairy Wrasse, Yellow Coris Wrasse and a Rohmboid Wrasse. There is a lot of rock scape and sand bottom for them. I recently tried to add 3 more fish to my tank that went through a complete 30 day QT process. They were a Melanaris Wrasse, Royal Gramma and a Firefish. They were properly acclimated and put in the DT. The tang would get close to the Melanarus Wrasse and posture with him side by side. There was no overt aggression or chase away. over the next 48 hours the new fish were eating well and swimming fine in the tank. The tang was still posturing with the wrasse to determine who the tank boss would be. Third day in the morning, the Melanarus is dead on the sand. He has no signs of being attacked or obvious fish disease. Fourth day my little Firefish is dead on the rocks and I notice the Gramma is in the top corner of the tank with the Fairy Wrasse shadowing him closely. He wont let him near the reef. That night the Gramma is sleeping in the sand outside of the rocks. Where before he was sleeping inside the rocks. It appeared as if he was not allowed into the rocks to sleep at night. Next morning, the Gramma is gone missing and now presumed dead.

It is like the 4 fish in the tank will not allow any new fish, big or small into the tank and the reef. I know fish claim territory but there is a lot of different hiding places and caves, out of sight areas. I am concerned now about trying to add any more fish to my tank. I figured I would have about 8 total, half small and half larger maybe 5" in my tank but now I don't think it is a good idea. I have en thought about adding 3 Damsels because I know they can defend themselves even with their small size.

There are plenty of instances where fish don't like each other and often there is aggression over territory but have I reached my reef limit now with only 4 fish? Would you try adding any more? I thought by adding 3 then the current fish would not just focus on one but instead it appears they did focus on the one and then the second and finally the third new fish.

Seeking some opinions and advice......thanks

I think fish aggression is a real possibility. I had a lot of trouble with that in my tank. 2 of my 3 inhabitants in my 20 gallon, would not let anyone else in ( had a YWG - gentleman, flame tail blenny and a solarensis wrasse). I got rid of the yellow flame tail, tried to introduce some new fish - death within 5 days to all newcomers. Then I got rid of the wrasse and got a striped blenny, the following week one damsel, then two not so small clowns that also did fine. I think sometimes it can be hard to find the right personalities to allow new fish in...

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Yes I'm guessing at least 2 months which is fine. They have these white tail blue damsels that are less aggressive and seem to do ok in small groups of 3.

Do you know the scientific name for those? I don't know that common name.

jay

 

[Lavey29]

Do you know the scientific name for those? I don't know that common name.

jay

I'll have to get it at the LFS. They blue was not as deep and faded white tails. Shaped like chromis but I think they were Fiji damsels.

 

[Lavey29]

I think fish aggression is a real possibility. I had a lot of trouble with that in my tank. 2 of my 3 inhabitants in my 20 gallon, would not let anyone else in ( had a YWG - gentleman, flame tail blenny and a solarensis wrasse). I got rid of the yellow flame tail, tried to introduce some new fish - death within 5 days to all newcomers. Then I got rid of the wrasse and got a striped blenny, the following week one damsel, then two not so small clowns that also did fine. I think sometimes it can be hard to find the right personalities to allow new fish in...

This is what I'm leaning towards also. The 4 fish in the tank have established their neighborhood and don't want to let any new fish in so I'm not sure how I will be able to change the dynamic without removing a few and then adding them back after the new fish have gotten comfortable in the environment.

 

[i cant think]

I think fish aggression is a real possibility. I had a lot of trouble with that in my tank. 2 of my 3 inhabitants in my 20 gallon, would not let anyone else in ( had a YWG - gentleman, flame tail blenny and a solarensis wrasse). I got rid of the yellow flame tail, tried to introduce some new fish - death within 5 days to all newcomers. Then I got rid of the wrasse and got a striped blenny, the following week one damsel, then two not so small clowns that also did fine. I think sometimes it can be hard to find the right personalities to allow new fish in...

I think the main reason why the wrasse hated all other animals if because of the tank size - These fish need 36” minimum to truly swim and be happy. So that’s why you couldn’t add more fish in with the wrasse, I have two wrasse that will eventually need to be in my 4’ tank but they’re happy for now - I mean, they would be dead in my 4’ tank according to the behaviour of Scott’s wrasses - I refuse to believe mine will be that aggressive as I have managed to add an Indonesian Lubbock in 8 months after he was established, just kept swimming with no care what’s so ever.

 

[i cant think]

This is what I'm leaning towards also. The 4 fish in the tank have established their neighborhood and don't want to let any new fish in so I'm not sure how I will be able to change the dynamic without removing a few and then adding them back after the new fish have gotten comfortable in the environment.

Move one or two rocks around, I know this can be a pain however if you want more fish in a small tank its one of the things you have to do.
The three wrasse you have aren’t actually aggressive wrasses don’t they shouldn’t be the issue, if anything the YWG would most likely do the most damage.

 

[MnFish1]

This is what I'm leaning towards also. The 4 fish in the tank have established their neighborhood and don't want to let any new fish in so I'm not sure how I will be able to change the dynamic without removing a few and then adding them back after the new fish have gotten comfortable in the environment.

As someone else suggested - an acclimation box. you can build/get a larger one. Also - re-arrange the territory if possible) so the old fish are kind of like 'new fish' as well. I know a lot of people cement their Aquascape - so moving things around might not be possible. Lastly - make sure - when you add the new fish that the old ones are well fed. Also during whatever quarantine process you choose when you go to get the fish - make SURE they look WELL FED. I am probably being cynical here - but if I ran a fish business - im not sure I woudl be feeding as healthily as a fish owner at home?

 

[Lavey29]

Move one or two rocks around, I know this can be a pain however if you want more fish in a small tank its one of the things you have to do.
The three wrasse you have aren’t actually aggressive wrasses don’t they shouldn’t be the issue, if anything the YWG would most likely do the most damage.

As someone else suggested - an acclimation box. you can build/get a larger one. Also - re-arrange the territory if possible) so the old fish are kind of like 'new fish' as well. I know a lot of people cement their Aquascape - so moving things around might not be possible. Lastly - make sure - when you add the new fish that the old ones are well fed. Also during whatever quarantine process you choose when you go to get the fish - make SURE they look WELL FED. I am probably being cynical here - but if I ran a fish business - im not sure I woudl be feeding as healthily as a fish owner at home?

The well fed part I did not consider. In fact I left the tank unfed in the morning so when I put the new fish in they could see the other fish eating and would follow suit.

 

[Lavey29]

Move one or two rocks around, I know this can be a pain however if you want more fish in a small tank its one of the things you have to do.
The three wrasse you have aren’t actually aggressive wrasses don’t they shouldn’t be the issue, if anything the YWG would most likely do the most damage.

I dont have (had) a YWG. I can move one rock to the other side at the top but doubt it will have any real affect in the tank. Its mainly the Red pintail wrasse and the Tang that seem to be the bullies in the tank for the new fish.