High Nitrates

[Seascapes]

Yes, white vinegar only.

Got the vinagar. How much to add to a 150 tank

 

[Dan_P]

Got the vinagar. How much for 150 gallon?

Most people start with a small daily dose and take their time stepping it up. For example, I increased my daily dose every 5-7 days (No science, just a gut feel). As the dose became large, I divided the daily dose into 2-3 smaller evenly spaced doses. I then just used the doser to put in a little bit every two hours. I think that I took 6-8 weeks to get the dose up to 1 mL per gallon. Nitrates dropped very fast when I got near to 1 mL. Keep an eye on alkalinity during this process and don’t deplete the PO4. It is needed by the bacteria. As you have probably heard, bacteria can become visible on surfaces at these higher vinegar levels but disappear when the vinegar dose dropped. There are many opinions on this subject and hopefully others will chime in to advise you. If you have the energy, search the R2R forum for more opinions

 

[drewwCh]

Where did you purchase grape caulerpa? I thought calerpa was bad?

I got mine locally from a market, I had trouble with both shipped caulerpa and shipped chaeto.

Some people have had caulerpa invade the DT, yes. but I keep mine lit 24/7 to prevent it from spawning. I also have an urchin that can help if caulerpa ever goes sexual and spreads to the DT.

 

[reefz]

I would stop nopox if you are getting cyano.


The best solution I have ever seen to knock down extremely high numbers is biopellets, followed by gfo for remaining phosphates. Just make sure to not bottom things out. It is not instant but once the biopellets kick in, they are extremely impressive (can easily knock down hundreds of ppm of nitrates)

Bio pellets dropped my nitrates from 80ppm to a steady 10ppm. I have a large tank with many fish, invertebrates, and coral so overfeeding is important. I don’t need to worry about a nitrate spike because of the pellets. IMO best thing i’ve done for my tank!

 

[zaga]

How big are the water changes that you are doing?

My nitrates were at 50 and everything was doing fine but I did want to lower them for some sps I was getting. I was able to bring the nitrates down to 10 after a couple of 20 percent water changes. Nitrates sit around 2.5 now with just a skimmer and no chemicals and biweekly 10 percent water changes.

One thing that has helped keep my nitrates down is turning off the return pump for an hour after feeding a cube of frozen food on a 60 gallon.

Edit: I began dosing live phyto a couple of weeks ago and this might be a contributing factor to my stabilized nitrates at 2.5. Regardless though, it was stable at 10 ppm after the two major water changes and before the phyto.

 

[Seascapes]

I got mine locally from a market, I had trouble with both shipped caulerpa and shipped chaeto.

Some people have had caulerpa invade the DT, yes. but I keep mine lit 24/7 to prevent it from spawning. I also have an urchin that can help if caulerpa ever goes sexual and spreads to the DT.

Thank you for the information

 

[Seascapes]

How big are the water changes that you are doing?

My nitrates were at 50 and everything was doing fine but I did want to lower them for some sps I was getting. I was able to bring the nitrates down to 10 after a couple of 20 percent water changes. Nitrates sit around 2.5 now with just a skimmer and no chemicals and biweekly 10 percent water changes.

One thing that has helped keep my nitrates down is turning off the return pump for an hour after feeding a cube of frozen food on a 60 gallon.

Edit: I began dosing live phyto a couple of weeks ago and this might be a contributing factor to my stabilized nitrates at 2.5. Regardless though, it was stable at 10 ppm after the two major water changes and before the phyto.

I was doing 30 gallons about every three weeks as I do not have a auto water changer and I have to lift those heavy 5 gallon buckets. I had a service to change my water when I had shoulder surgery but I'm trying to do it myself.

 

[Seascapes]

How big are the water changes that you are doing?

My nitrates were at 50 and everything was doing fine but I did want to lower them for some sps I was getting. I was able to bring the nitrates down to 10 after a couple of 20 percent water changes. Nitrates sit around 2.5 now with just a skimmer and no chemicals and biweekly 10 percent water changes.

One thing that has helped keep my nitrates down is turning off the return pump for an hour after feeding a cube of frozen food on a 60 gallon.

Edit: I began dosing live phyto a couple of weeks ago and this might be a contributing factor to my stabilized nitrates at 2.5. Regardless though, it was stable at 10 ppm after the two major water changes and before the phyto.

I'll try turning off the return after feeding, good info, didn't think about that

 

[zaga]

I was doing 30 gallons about every three weeks as I do not have a auto water changer and I have to lift those heavy 5 gallon buckets. I had a service to change my water when I had shoulder surgery but I'm trying to do it myself.

Did you test nitrates before and after each water change?

 

[Seascapes]

Bio pellets dropped my nitrates from 80ppm to a steady 10ppm. I have a large tank with many fish, invertebrates, and coral so overfeeding is important. I don’t need to worry about a nitrate spike because of the pellets. IMO best thing i’ve done for my tank!

I was looking at biopellets, I'm not that sophisticated, frankly scared. Looking at dosing vinagar to see I'd that helps, thank you!

 

[Seascapes]

Did you test nitrates before and after each water change?

I tested after, not before nitrates did not budge. Started dosing 15 mils of vinagar today, I'll let everyone know if it helps. I appreciate you guys, you all have been helpful. I don't feel so overwhelmed now with everyone's support.

 

[Seascapes]

Sometimes trying to fight everything with chemicals can cause other problems and just throw everything out of wack. I would recommend trying to fight nitrates and phosphates as one issue instead of attacking them separately. I would stop dosing all of those different things and stick to one method like your carbon dosing (NOPOX).
Bacteria, corals, algae, etc. all use nitrates, phosphates, and carbon at set rate so when you remove one without the other you throw the natural ratio out of wack and don't leave enough of one nutrient to be consumed with the other. I also wouldn't get hung up on specific numbers, there are healthy tanks in the high ranges and in the low ranges, but what all healthy tanks have in common is stability.
So your best bet is getting the tank stable again.

If this was my tank I would stop all the extra stuff and stick to a simple method. Personaly I would go with a refugium or carbon dosing (nopox) or both. If you just use the refugium make sure you have a good light on the cheto.
I would add more flow to the areas that are experiencing cyano, and dose prodibio biodigest as I prefer this to MB7 and dose biodigest everyday for a couple weeks. You can not OD biodigest as it only contains good bacteria. I would also continue doing water changes to help get your nutrients back in balance. Let the method you choose reduce PO4 and NO3 at the ratio its naturally does and don't worry about keeping them at a specific number, the goal is to just have them at a stable ratio.
cheap but strong light

Once corals start to die it can be really hard to save them usually the only thing that can is stability.
If you are still experiencing die off once things are stable you could try the witch hazel treatment but it won't save anything too far gone or correct instability issue. (I have have had recent success with this treatment)

https://www.reefmoonshiners.com/witchhazel-reeftank-treatment

You may also want to read through the reef moonshiners handbook as there's a good section on balancing nutrients. It also explains the redfield ratio which is a good guideline but again I wouldn't get hung up on exact numbers.

I would also be careful about just dumping tons of carbon sources (nopox, vinegar, vodka) in to get your nutrients down, as carbon fuels all types of bacteria including cyano.

Slow and steady wins the race.


I hope this helps

Thank you so much! That's my problem, I'm impatient especially when I see coral dying. I'm afraid to add anymore coral until this gets under control.

 

[Seascapes]

Most people start with a small daily dose and take their time stepping it up. For example, I increased my daily dose every 5-7 days (No science, just a gut feel). As the dose became large, I divided the daily dose into 2-3 smaller evenly spaced doses. I then just used the doser to put in a little bit every two hours. I think that I took 6-8 weeks to get the dose up to 1 mL per gallon. Nitrates dropped very fast when I got near to 1 mL. Keep an eye on alkalinity during this process and don’t deplete the PO4. It is needed by the bacteria. As you have probably heard, bacteria can become visible on surfaces at these higher vinegar levels but disappear when the vinegar dose dropped. There are many opinions on this subject and hopefully others will chime in to advise you. If you have the energy, search the R2R forum for more opinions

Thank you! I'm starting out with 15ml a day. Just after dosing I noticed some of the green slime is leaving on the rock and green algae tufts on the rock have white tips. Easier to clean the green algae on the glass. You've been so helpful I'll keep testing too

 

[fushi]

No, I've been trying to reduce feeding since all of this happened. Only once a week to the tank and I feed the fish 1 cube per day and nori every other day.. I have 4 tangs, 2 chromis, sleeper gobie, 2 clowns, 1 Fendi, 1 wrasse. I just added some snails, Scarlett hermits and 1 starfish. I also have a huge peppermint shrimp. Anenome that has split and is white instead of pink

I would not feed the tank (i assume you mean coral food) until you get things under control. It’s not really necessary especially when things are not doing well. Being patient and getting things stable will make the largest impact.

 

[fushi]

Thank you so much! That's my problem, I'm impatient especially when I see coral dying. I'm afraid to add anymore coral until this gets under control.

I wouldn’t add any coral until things stabilize.

I would also keep in mind vinegar, nopox, and biopellets all basically do the same thing which is add a carbon source to help bacteria grow and consume nutrients. So mixing them or constantly switching back and forth between all of them is not in your best interest. You have to pick one and learn how the dosage affects your tanks nutrients, which takes time and patience.

I would do a couple more waterchanges to start with a fresh slate then wait a couple days test your nutrients then dose the recommended amount of carbon in the evening (nopox, vinegar etc.) then test your nutrients in the morning and see how much it reduces your nutrients, continue dosing and testInt until you find the amount you need to dose to keep things stable. Once things are stable with your dosing slowly start dosing more to lower your nutrients in the range you want them.

Just remember there is no over night fix, as the saying goes “nothing good happens fast in a reef tank”

 

[Seascapes]

I wouldn’t add any coral until things stabilize.

I would also keep in mind vinegar, nopox, and biopellets all basically do the same thing which is add a carbon source to help bacteria grow and consume nutrients. So mixing them or constantly switching back and forth between all of them is not in your best interest. You have to pick one and learn how the dosage affects your tanks nutrients, which takes time and patience.

I would do a couple more waterchanges to start with a fresh slate then wait a couple days test your nutrients then dose the recommended amount of carbon in the evening (nopox, vinegar etc.) then test your nutrients in the morning and see how much it reduces your nutrients, continue dosing and testInt until you find the amount you need to dose to keep things stable. Once things are stable with your dosing slowly start dosing more to lower your nutrients in the range you want them.

Just remember there is no over night fix, as the saying goes “nothing good happens fast in a reef tank”

Thank you for the advice. I have to develop more patience

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Also, I would change filter socks more than weekly. If you hate cleaning them, you could check out reef diapers

They don't make 7" yet right? I'd love to try them

 

[Spare time]

They don't make 7" yet right? I'd love to try them

That I am not sure of. I just see their ads here and think they look neat haha

 

[arking_mark]

Just a couple of thoughts here:

• Many tanks are successful with higher nutrient levels
• Stability and slow change is key to success
• Most coral issues that you see today are a result of something that happen weeks before. By the time you see the damage, the cause may no longer be there
• Coral issue are more likely to be caused by a quick change or instability swings
• Easiest fix is usually larger water changes over a couple of weeks with a quality salt that closely matches your tank parameters
• I'd avoid all the chemicals and dosing. Then only introduce one change at a time to the tank
• https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-12-commandments-of-reef-keeping.817592/

I've had good nutrient control success through in/out regulation and have progressed to heavy in/out.

My ins are typically food/waste and out is filtration and water changes.

Dry foods are heavier in PO4 and wet/frozen foods heavier in NO3.

My outs are coral/algae, roller mat (mechanical filtration), refugium (biological uptake of NO3/PO4), a skimmer (mostly used for pH regulation but provides some nutrient export) , and 1% daily AWC.

Maturity of the tank is also critical for regulation as new substrate and rock can act like a PO4 sponge. Also, if you don't have enough coral/algae, you are missing a key nutrient out mechanism,

Generally speaking, I monitor PO4/NO3 once a week now and have been tweaking my dry vs wet/frozen feedings to maintain stable NO3/PO4 levels

 

[Reef Diaper]

They don't make 7" yet right? I'd love to try them

Currently we only make a 4" sock. We might make a 7" version in the future, but this will require new tooling and a lot of time. For a short term solution we created an adapter for our 4” filters. It obviously wouldn't provide the capacity of the 7", but it would provide an option for systems with lighter bio loads. We are testing the prototypes now. Let me know if you have any other questions.