High Sulfur

[Belgian Anthias]

My conclusion: If Total S may be connected to the presence of sulfate and elemental sulfur one should not worry. The sulfate content is manageable.

Insignificant contributors to total S may become significant.

The increased total S can not be connected to the use of the SD as long more info is not available.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I don;t know how you can conclude what sulfate level is problematic, or how you can conclude it didn't come from oxidation of sulfur. I do not know the answer to either question.

I don't know if this applies to the OP, but IMO, it would be incorrect to conclude that sulfur in an aerobic environment cannot become colonized with organisms that use O2 to oxidize the sulfur to sulfate, which could product an unlimited amount of sulfate.

Microbial oxidation of sulfur - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Belgian Anthias]

I don;t know how you can conclude what sulfate level is problematic, or how you can conclude it didn't come from oxidation of sulfur. I do not know the answer to either question.

I don't know if this applies to the OP, but IMO, it would be incorrect to conclude that sulfur in an aerobic environment cannot become colonized with organisms that use O2 to oxidize the sulfur to sulfate, which could product an unlimited amount of sulfate.

Microbial oxidation of sulfur - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do you claim elemental sulfur is oxidized to sulfate aerobically in normal marine aquarium conditions?

Most sulfur compounds and elemental sulfur may be oxidized aerobically, also HS escaping an SD. We do know that!
At what conditions elemental sulfur may be oxidized aerobically? We also do know that! That is why we use elemental sulfur in life support systems and not other sulfur compounds often used in water cleaning facilities.


T. denitrificans, responsible for using nitrate to oxidize elemental sulfur using a BADES application, can make good use of many sulfur compounds aerobically and anaerobically, including elemental sulfur but only if following its anaerobic pathway.

Maybe 600ppm of Total S measured is produced by the SD present? Also, It may come from other sources! It may include a toxic part. I do not know! That is what I aim to say since the beginning of this discussion.

As far as I know, you are the only one connecting a BADES application or and the presence of elemental sulfur to aerobic elemental sulfur oxidation in a marine aquarium and making it an issue.

Those who did 7 years of research before using elemental sulfur in very high quantities in big public marine aquaria and did this for decades, they never reported aerobic oxidation of elemental sulfur. If aerobic elemental sulfur oxidation takes place in marine aquarium systems, even when containing a lot of elemental sulfur, It must be very insignificant.


As long @ca1ore does not respond with new info there is nothing to add or to change to my previously made conclusion.

 

[ca1ore]

Apparently it’s been two years, not one, since I had the last water analysis done. Sulfur was 978 then, versus a target of 900. I use IO which, if memory serves, is on the lower end of the salt mixes for sulfur. Sulfur denitrator has been on the system for about a year, so reasonable to assume that the S rise is connected. I’ve seen no particular degradation of coral health over the last year; just did a major pruning of some large colonies removing almost 10 pounds of shaded branches and created frags.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Apparently it’s been two years, not one, since I had the last water analysis done. Sulfur was 978 then, versus a target of 900. I use IO which, if memory serves, is on the lower end of the salt mixes for sulfur. Sulfur denitrator has been on the system for about a year, so reasonable to assume that the S rise is connected. I’ve seen no particular degradation of coral health over the last year; just did a major pruning of some large colonies removing almost 10 pounds of shaded branches and created frags.

The use of an SD is always connected to sulfate production. I try to find out why it is what it is. For this, I started a conversation.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Do you claim elemental sulfur is oxidized to sulfate aerobically in normal marine aquarium conditions?

I do not know if it happens in marine aquaria. Only that it can happen with natural marine bacteria.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

As far as I know, you are the only one connecting a BADES application or and the presence of elemental sulfur to aerobic elemental sulfur oxidation in a marine aquarium and making it an issue.

Good. I like being the first.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Good. I like being the first.

We will add it to our list of references concerning BADES applications and possible side effects.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Test of marine salts - We will try to find the best one.

There are many marine salts available on the market for marine aquaculture. In our article we will try to compare them and their chemical composition

reefhub.pl

A polish test of marine salts. It shows the difference of S content between salt mixes but also the difference between the two methods of testing. A lot of these Salts are at +- 800 mgS/l.
IO has published it contains +- 900mgS/l
One salt in the test only contains half the sulfate present in natural seawater. I contacted the manufacturer about this and he claims the results are not correct and the S content of the present salt mix is about 650mgS/l for sulfate. It is a salt mix based on natural sea salts. Ideal for managing the sulfate content in high nutrient BADES systems, if needed.
When lowering a high nitrate level using a BADES application, using a low sulfate salt mix for normal water changes will prevent the sulfate content to become high. To maintain the desired nitrate level only the daily overproduction must be removed daily which is not that much in LNS.
BADES users should replace the calcium carbonate content on a regular base ( 3-6 months) which may help to control the sulfate content. (ref: neveneffecten CMF De Haes 2017)

 

[Jon_W79]

Did my annual ICP-OES water test last week. PO4 is high …. though it's always been high despite my use of GFO. Probably 125 fish is a tad too many . Slightly lower than both 2019 or 2018, though likely within the measurement error. I don't have algae problems and the SPS grow well so I have stopped worrying about it. Li is typically high, though that seems to be a function of the IO salt mix. Likewise for Na. I am seeing high sulfur though. Not necessarily surprising since i started using a sulfur denitrator since the last test. My question is whether 1,604 mg/l (versus 900 mg/l) is something to be concerned about? I see no observational signs that the corals are stressed. May need to 'goose' the iodine dosing though.

I know an easy way that you can remove a lot of the sulfate if you want to. You can get the ESV 200 gallon salt mix, and you can replace the 5.5 pound bag of magnesium sulfate with magnesium chloride(I'm not sure if you replace the exact amount). I think it will reduce sulfate by at least 40% in your reef tank. Of course it will raise the chloride level, but there is way more chloride in seawater than sulfate.

 

[Jon_W79]

I know an easy way that you can remove a lot of the sulfate if you want to. You can get the ESV 200 gallon salt mix, and you can replace the 5.5 pound bag of magnesium sulfate with magnesium chloride(I'm not sure if you replace the exact amount). I think it will reduce sulfate by at least 40% in your reef tank. Of course it will raise the chloride level, but there is way more chloride in seawater than sulfate.

I want to make a correction. The picture for the 200 gallon salt mix starter kit is actually the 100 gallon salt mix starter kit, so you would replace the magnesium sulfate with 11 pounds of magnesium chloride, not 5.5 pounds. This would be an expensive salt mix, but I think It would be the most economical way to lower sulfate because of how much the sulfate is lowered(except, if you made your own salt mix and made a much larger amount). If the OP does this, he could lower the sulfate to the target level, and then after that I think it would be a good idea to make mixtures of ESV salt, and Instant Ocean salt, to do water changes with.