I don't think testing once a day is too much while you are dosing, but I just don't have a lot of confidence that the nutrient levels are a 100 percent confidence of success. Like there are other things biological going on that we can't exactly explain with them. Realistically I don't think it's too much nutrients that caused it, but some other unexplained stuff at work. I know regular water changes and lots of food have helped me, but I can't really pin down what your issue is, because our measurements are roughly the same.
Nitrate dosing expectations
- Thread starter Catfish2
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Catfish2
Active Member
That's some good insight. This hobie is strange. When things are growing, you feel really confident like you've fired it out, then something like this happens and you feel like a total failure. I've been doing this long enough that I'm at the point where I expect zero losses, but I guess that's not realistic.
You put things into perspective by reminding me that these are complex processes and just because we think we know a lot there is a whole lot more going on.
It takes time, and dosing.
I keep my nitrates around 20ppm and phos around .08 -- Zero issues. This is where I had the best colors. Originally I was only dosing no3, but eventually, corals began paling again... For no reason I could figure out. I just kept dosing nitrates up to around 40, and it didn't help. So on a whim, I did what everyone said to NEVER, EVER do.
Dosed some phosphorous.
Colors looked better in a few days, but took well over a month to fully recover. Some corals have not fully recovered yet in 3 months time.
I keep my nitrates around 20ppm and phos around .08 -- Zero issues. This is where I had the best colors. Originally I was only dosing no3, but eventually, corals began paling again... For no reason I could figure out. I just kept dosing nitrates up to around 40, and it didn't help. So on a whim, I did what everyone said to NEVER, EVER do.
Dosed some phosphorous.
Colors looked better in a few days, but took well over a month to fully recover. Some corals have not fully recovered yet in 3 months time.
Coronus
Valuable Member
The solution to this problem is add more fish. I think I read 2 fish? Add more fish. This is being way over complicated. The reef needs fish. The color will come with maturity and fish. I have had this problem in the past. I know for certain this is the solution because it happened to me many years ago. I have not read the whole thread. Only the Original poster. A 130 could house 13 or so fish. Add slowly and watch color come.Corals (all frags right now) pale within a week or two of being in my system. Nitrates have been testing 0 with the red sea kit and phosphate is testing 0 with hanna ultra low checker.
System info:
-130 total gallons
-lighting: current usa t5 6 bulb fixture with 3 ati b+, 1 p+, 1 c+, and 1 ab special.
-Bio load: very small, one yellow tang, one lawnmower blenny, 25 sps frags
- running for 6 months
-filtration: marine pure block and plate, reef octopus 150, rox carbon
-salinity: 1.026
-temp: 78
-ph: 8.2
-alk: 8
-ca: 455
-mag: 1600 (last tested 6/26/17)
- nitrate: 0 (redsea)
-phosphate: 0 (hanna ultra low checker)
I've assumed low nutrients are the cause of my pale frags.
I started by feeding the fish more than they can eat at one time and spot feeding the frags with reef roids. After 3 weeks, there was no change in color or nitrate/phospate levels.
5 days ago, I started dosing sodium nitrate. I used this calculator (http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/calculator.htm) and dosed 20 ml, which should have raised nitrate by 1 ppm.
Nitrates have remained at 0 every day
Phosphate went from 0.006 to 0.012 to 0.025 to 0
The only visible change in the tank is that the fine "baby hair" like algae went from really pale to brown and has grown some. After 5 days I don't expect any change in the coral color and I haven't seen any noticeable change. (pics below for comparison)
Qeustion:
1) Am I just feeding algae? Should I remove all the algae or will that spike the nitrate too quickly?
2) is it normal to keep getting 0 nitate? If so, how long before it's detectable?
3) should I keep dosing the nitate till I hit my goal?
4) how long does it typically take to see improvement in coral color when dosing nitrate?
I'm open to any suggestions.
If this question had been answered, please point me in the right direction. I searched the form and couldn't find anything that said what to expect with nitrate levels once dosing is started.
Thanks!
Before dosing
After dosing
No algae has been manually removed.
OP
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Catfish2
Active Member
Seeing as how I had disastrous results with careful nitrate dosing, I am going to go the more fish and heavy feeding rout.
2Wheelsonly
Valuable Member
I changed my feeding schedule and went from 20 nitrates to 2 in a little under a week without any issue. In order to keep them in my tank I have to feed extremely heavy. I wouldn't imagine a spike from 0.5 to 10 would cause a mass die off like that. You sure it's not some chemical hidden in your no3 dose that caused it?
I'm a fan of adding fish but I understand how that can be scary in a small tank and that's why small reef tanks are the hardest to keep I guess.
Why not just let your nutrients stay low and feed zeovit suppliments? I am not a fan of ULNS zeovit systems but they do work; if you have no nutrients how about feeding the corals based on their product line? Aminos, coral vit and maybe some zeovit k balance after testing your k. Do this instead of some random no3 additive that isn't designed for reef tanks!
I'm a fan of adding fish but I understand how that can be scary in a small tank and that's why small reef tanks are the hardest to keep I guess.
Why not just let your nutrients stay low and feed zeovit suppliments? I am not a fan of ULNS zeovit systems but they do work; if you have no nutrients how about feeding the corals based on their product line? Aminos, coral vit and maybe some zeovit k balance after testing your k. Do this instead of some random no3 additive that isn't designed for reef tanks!
OP
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Catfish2
Active Member
I know, I have a hard time believing an increase from zero to 10 over 2 weeks could have this effect, but nothing else was intentionally changed and I can't think of anything that unintentionally changed. I suppose there could be an unknown substance in the sodium nitate I was dosing, but it is food grade and what randy Holmes recommends for nitrate dosing. I know others have used it with success.I changed my feeding schedule and went from 20 nitrates to 2 in a little under a week without any issue. In order to keep them in my tank I have to feed extremely heavy. I wouldn't imagine a spike from 0.5 to 10 would cause a mass die off like that. You sure it's not some chemical hidden in your no3 dose that caused it?
I'm a fan of adding fish but I understand how that can be scary in a small tank and that's why small reef tanks are the hardest to keep I guess.
Why not just let your nutrients stay low and feed zeovit suppliments? I am not a fan of ULNS zeovit systems but they do work; if you have no nutrients how about feeding the corals based on their product line? Aminos, coral vit and maybe some zeovit k balance after testing your k. Do this instead of some random no3 additive that isn't designed for reef tanks!
I could keep an ULNS and go the zeo method, but I'm not a fan of ULN because the margin of error is smaller with any system run at the limit.
I will likely add "foods" specific for the coral (amino acids, reef chili/roids) along with feeding the fish more.
I'll look into reef frenzy. I've heard good things!
I have a lot of rock with tons of random critters, so the reef frenzy basically turns the tank into a snow storm for a minute or two. Mostly the zoas and LPS pick out what they want, but it has lots of smaller particles as well. But really I think it's just putting a ton of waste into the water which helps keep my nutrients up. Dosing nitrates was helpful, but until I switched to lfs reef frenzy and fed 2-4 times a day I hadn't seen great results. I also though didn't have the Hanna ulr phosphate checker, which a local reefer recommend.
I have also been blowing the sand clean once a week which I'm sure stirs up lots of microbes for the corals to eat and removes some phosphate bonds to the aragonite.
I just wonder how people get stable with all the variables. I've been testing every other day to monitor nutrients, and I know at some point people have to just get the feel for nutrients in VS. Nutrients out. Keeping alkalinity and calcium stable seems like a breeze comparatively!
