Phosphate Spike

[WarEaglesReef]

Newbie reefer having my first phosphate spike in my tank. I've got GFO coming on Monday to run in my media basket, but is there anything I can do aside from large water changes to help me stabilize things through the weekend? Most everything in my tank is holding up well with no signs of stress, but my torch coral is super unhappy about the situation (although it looks MUCH better today than it did yesterday). I've got my levels down to .16ppm from .40 with a series of 20% water changes for the last two days.

Definitely getting my first taste of what people mean about parameters changing very rapidly in smaller tanks. Any help/advice is greatly appreciated!!

 

[brownsalt92]

How old is the tank?
How many Gallons?

 

[brandon429]

hey I have a question, my angle comes from never caring about p04 since my reef started. never tested for it in 16 yrs
phosphate generation point is the feed we add and the storage places in the tank for the feed waste, such that elevated nitrate often accompanies the elevated reefing

im curious to know what stores there are for the phosphate in the system...any dirty sandbeds or places that uneaten food compiles? a super heavy fish bioload by association and feed command can also be a generation source if export isn't right for the tank...

while its true simply a larger w change w lower it, im highly interested to know of its source in your tank

is your topoff water guaranteed tds zero. I feel any coral actions are not tied to po4 changes or levels in your tank, mere polyp extension differences day to day or disturbance from a tank animal is more likely.

 

[WarEaglesReef]

How old is the tank?
How many Gallons?

It'll be 5 months old here next week. It's a 13.5 gallon. ~10 gallons after water displacement from the live rock.

 

[brandon429]

the good part is, on a tank like that it can be rip cleaned and reset to pure zero po4 stores, easy to hit the reset button there.

The addition of GFO means either a store is being left to pump out, or the identifying level test is off or just an approximate compared to calibrated gear, or the feed input/output is off. just curious about that part

 

[Brian W]

may need to do more water changes. I like using GFO in my tank. I switch it out monthly. (Don't add too much flow or it will disintegrate) GFO works like magic

 

[WarEaglesReef]

hey I have a question, my angle comes from never caring about p04 since my reef started. never tested for it in 16 yrs
phosphate generation point is the feed we add and the storage places in the tank for the feed waste, such that elevated nitrate often accompanies the elevated reefing

im curious to know what stores there are for the phosphate in the system...any dirty sandbeds or places that uneaten food compiles? a super heavy fish bioload by association and feed command can also be a generation source if export isn't right for the tank...

while its true simply a larger w change w lower it, im highly interested to know of its source in your tank

is your topoff water guaranteed tds zero. I feel any coral actions are not tied to po4 changes or levels in your tank, mere polyp extension differences day to day or disturbance from a tank animal is more likely.

Topoff water is 0 tds. I've got an RO/DI filter at home and my tds readings are always zero for anything that gets put in the tank. Water is about 2 tds before the dual stage DI and zero after both stage 1 and 2.

Sandbed is relatively clean, as I'm not seeing much come out of it while sifting it out during water changes. Only food changes are spot feeding a bit of reef roids once this week to the new corals I added last week which I'm sure plays a part in the issue. Overall I've got pretty strong flow in the tank and haven't noticed any places that uneaten food is resting.

 

[brandon429]

I have to be honest Id never use GFO nor test for po4 in that tank without an excessive fish bioload or some kind of inaccessible sandbed, both of which it sounds like don't apply

can you post full tank shot pics

many times people are responding to algae issues when they aim for po4 management in nano reefs, or to be able to go longer in between water changes *because nitrate isn't a problem* and some po4 binding would remove that level of work...if those specifics are in play it makes sense to detail the levels, but ill never need to know po4 in my reef simply because I change half or all the water regularly. if that's ever an angle you want to take you can be free of all testing except for temp and salinity actually. others like the hands off/tuning ability of dosers and testers and that's a fine alternative as well.

dosing lanthanum chloride is a specific po4 binder and I know of no examples for it in nano reefs although Im sure there are some. we keep our nanos free of algae without ever checking nutrients for the most part at nano-reef.com we are just killing it off the rocks pretty much.

 

[brandon429]

 

[brandon429]

you may not want to watch all that, for the written version just google Richard Ross phosphate skeptical aquarist, he runs po4 sps systems with readings very high in po4, against the common rule. the only thing my nano requires to pump out coral frags is spot feeding of the corals and large water changes like CPR that goes on week after week for hundreds of weeks

 

[KJ]

Try Blue Life Phosphate RX works great.

 

[WarEaglesReef]

I have to be honest Id never use GFO nor test for po4 in that tank without an excessive fish bioload or some kind of inaccessible sandbed, both of which it sounds like don't apply

can you post full tank shot pics

many times people are responding to algae issues when they aim for po4 management in nano reefs, or to be able to go longer in between water changes *because nitrate isn't a problem* and some po4 binding would remove that level of work...if those specifics are in play it makes sense to detail the levels, but ill never need to know po4 in my reef simply because I change half or all the water regularly. if that's ever an angle you want to take you can be free of all testing except for temp and salinity actually. others like the hands off/tuning ability of dosers and testers and that's a fine alternative as well.

dosing lanthanum chloride is a specific po4 binder and I know of no examples for it in nano reefs although Im sure there are some. we keep our nanos free of algae without ever checking nutrients for the most part at nano-reef.com we are just killing it off the rocks pretty much.

Here's the full tank. In terms of livestock I've got a pair of clowns, a goby and a cleaner shrimp along with CuC snails and a few hermits.

 

[brandon429]

that's great looking setup w no obvious stores. for sure id have someone double check a sample first before sequestration or you may take too much, looks great above. its also harmless to tinker with it if you like, mess up and you'll get a green algae bloom not a huge deal. water change/clean/reset any ole day

keeping po4 nice n low by testing verified accurate allows you to feed more directly into the corals as a side benefit and not have to detail removing it all so much. me personally I just feed great then once or twice a year take the thing apart and clean it and put it back together minus all cloudy waste. saves me literally all testing and dosers.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Here's the full tank. In terms of livestock I've got a pair of clowns, a goby and a cleaner shrimp along with CuC snails and a few hermits.

I don't belive phosphates can spike with normal feeding. You'd have to try real hard to to do it and then you couldn't call it a phosphate spike as you have a lot more problems than po4. Or are we calling an increase over weeks a spike.

Nice thank btw.
Don't let the internet and opinions psyche mess with your head. Look at science.
I.e. Waterchanges don't reduce phosphate levels. Jus Sayin.

Look up Randy's articles under the chemistry section on phosphate. It a start. Richard Ross is also a hoot. Definitely read his work.

 

[mcarroll]

Newbie reefer having my first phosphate spike in my tank. I've got GFO coming on Monday...

I would try hard to relax and let your tank tell you when something is really up.

pH meters and nutrient test kits are best used as corroborating evidence.

In other words, it's usually a mistake to use your test kits to tell your corals there's a problem. But if your corals look funny and your test results do too, then you're on to something!

Phosphates in your water is a "problem" only in that it can feed algae and that it's a signal that your feeding regime is outpacing your tank size+management routine.

The begged question is whether algae is a problem – I say no. Algae makes for a healthy tank. Therefore phosphates are not a problem...not in and of themselves.

The overfeeding/overstocking angle is worth looking at, however. Remember that the tendency for all of us is to stock more fish than is ideal. If you're new, it's even more important to keep stocking levels moderate or even low until you have a firm handle on things.