Problems with clowns in quarantine

[BamaCoastPyrat]

I bought two Picasso Percula Clownfish on Wednesday. They have now been in my quarantine tank under observation for about 45 hours. One is approximately 1" in length and the others is approximately 1-1/4". The larger of the two has a white speck on its lip. We noticed this shortly after placing in the QT. Photos are (hopefully) attached. Last night I noticed that their breathing rate looked faster than I thought it should be. Today after getting home from work, the breathing rate has increased to a concerning level. The fish are also now swimming lethargically and listing to their side.

They have not eaten well since picking them up. I have seen them eat a few 0.8 mm pellets of sustainable aquatics clearly complete saltwater fish food. At lunch time today they let brine shrimp drop right in front of them and they did not touch them.

My ammonia is at 0.25 ppm, nitrite 0 ppm, nitrate 5 ppm. The water salinity from the LFS was at 1.0225 and I have raised that over the two days to 1.024 to be in line with my display tank. The current temperature in the QT is 79 degrees.

I have not started prophylactically treating yet. I am about to run to the store to pick up Coppersafe and Prazipro.

What might be going on?

I am tagging @Sharkbait19 and @Jay Hemdal because ya'll have been answering my questions about setting up my QT.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hard to tell on a phone screen but appears to be a worm ?
One way to eliminate that possibility is a 5minute freshwater dip in tap water the same temp as the display tank with a pinch of baking soda and see if this object falls off.

 

[BamaCoastPyrat]

Hard to tell on a phone screen but appears to be a worm ?
One way to eliminate that possibility is a 5minute freshwater dip in tap water the same temp as the display tank with a pinch of baking soda and see if this object falls off.

I just did a 5 minute freshwater dip in the same temperature water. However, I did not have any baking soda on hand. I can get some if i need to, but that seems like a lot of stress on the fish to do a second dip.

The speck did not fall off and it doesn't really look like there are any specks or anything in the freshwater after pulling the fish.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Thanks for all the information! Definitely helpful in deciding what may be wrong.

A white speck on the mouth is often a sign of lymphocytosis, but given the rapid breathing and lethargy, something different might be up. You mentioned that your ammonia is at 0.25, that should really be 0. However, I doubt that’s the main problem. If I may ask, which water test kit are you using? Certain kits can be more inaccurate than others.
That said, I think it is likely that there is a parasite of some sorts involved, as indicated by the rapid breathing and lack of eating. It could be an internal parasite, but it is also not unlikely that there is brooklynella, in which the symptoms sometimes show up before the visible illness itself.

 

[JCMelski]

The white spec on its lip looks like it’s coloration. Doesn’t look like a worm. Could the ammonia have an effect on them? Try a water change.

 

[BamaCoastPyrat]

The white spec on its lip looks like it’s coloration. Doesn’t look like a worm. Could the ammonia have an effect on them? Try a water change.

I am not 100% convinced that the speck isn't his coloration. I wasn't worried about it until the breathing issues showed up. I am not sure on the ammonia. I will probably do a water change before treating with whatever is recommended.

 

[BamaCoastPyrat]

Thanks for all the information! Definitely helpful in deciding what may be wrong.

A white speck on the mouth is often a sign of lymphocytosis, but given the rapid breathing and lethargy, something different might be up. You mentioned that your ammonia is at 0.25, that should really be 0. However, I doubt that’s the main problem. If I may ask, which water test kit are you using? Certain kits can be more inaccurate than others.
That said, I think it is likely that there is a parasite of some sorts involved, as indicated by the rapid breathing and lack of eating. It could be an internal parasite, but it is also not unlikely that there is brooklynella, in which the symptoms sometimes show up before the visible illness itself.

I am using an API kit. I tested the ammonia twice and got the same result each time. I did a 5 minute freshwater dip after my original post (without the baking soda) and the speck did not come off. So that might be his pigment? But the breathing and swimming has me worried. How would you treat considering the unknown?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I am using an API kit. I tested the ammonia twice and got the same result each time. I did a 5 minute freshwater dip after my original post (without the baking soda) and the speck did not come off. So that might be his pigment? But the breathing and swimming has me worried. How would you treat considering the unknown?

Ok good, no worm. On api kits, if youre not aware, these kits are notorious for false readings and your levels may be higher than shown. You can take a good water sample to a trusted LFS that does Not use API kits and see what readings they come up with.
Im convinced this is not a coloration or pigment

 

[BamaCoastPyrat]

Ok good, no worm. On api kits, if youre not aware, these kits are notorious for false readings and your levels may be higher than shown. You can take a good water sample to a trusted LFS that does Not use API kits and see what readings they come up with.
Im convinced this is not a coloration or pigment

Unfortunately I do not have a trusted LFS yet. I will do a 25% wafer change now. Is there a reliable tester cheaper than a Hannah?

I just picked up some copper safe but the prazipro I ordered is hung up in the mail somewhere. Should I begin treating with copper after the wafer change?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Unfortunately I do not have a trusted LFS yet. I will do a 25% wafer change now. Is there a reliable tester cheaper than a Hannah?

I just picked up some copper safe but the prazipro I ordered is hung up in the mail somewhere. Should I begin treating with copper after the wafer change?

Copper unwarranted unless you see dots representing parasites such as ich or velvet.
Salifert test kits and Nyos . Consider used hanna in the R2R marketplace which average $30

 

[BamaCoastPyrat]

Hard to tell on a phone screen but appears to be a worm ?
One way to eliminate that possibility is a 5minute freshwater dip in tap water the same temp as the display tank with a pinch of baking soda and see if this object falls off.

Well, we are down to just one clown in the quarantine tank. The one with the thing on its lip died. This picture is the best I could get of something so small.

 

[gbroadbridge]

I bought two Picasso Percula Clownfish on Wednesday. They have now been in my quarantine tank under observation for about 45 hours. One is approximately 1" in length and the others is approximately 1-1/4". The larger of the two has a white speck on its lip. We noticed this shortly after placing in the QT. Photos are (hopefully) attached. Last night I noticed that their breathing rate looked faster than I thought it should be. Today after getting home from work, the breathing rate has increased to a concerning level. The fish are also now swimming lethargically and listing to their side.

They have not eaten well since picking them up. I have seen them eat a few 0.8 mm pellets of sustainable aquatics clearly complete saltwater fish food. At lunch time today they let brine shrimp drop right in front of them and they did not touch them.

My ammonia is at 0.25 ppm, nitrite 0 ppm, nitrate 5 ppm. The water salinity from the LFS was at 1.0225 and I have raised that over the two days to 1.024 to be in line with my display tank. The current temperature in the QT is 79 degrees.

I have not started prophylactically treating yet. I am about to run to the store to pick up Coppersafe and Prazipro.

What might be going on?

I am tagging @Sharkbait19 and @Jay Hemdal because ya'll have been answering my questions about setting up my QT.

Was the QT cycled?

Total Ammonia of 0.25 is around 0.02 free ammonia which is toxic.

I'd use something like Prime to detox the ammonia to start with.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Well, we are down to just one clown in the quarantine tank. The one with the thing on its lip died. This picture is the best I could get of something so small.

Clearer pic and sorry to hear
This look like something bacterial

 

[BamaCoastPyrat]

Clearer pic and sorry to hear
This look like something bacterial

I appreciate it. They both died. That happened super quick. I'm going to keep a water sample and see if I can find someone with better testing equipment to check that ammonia level.

 

[Sharkbait19]

I’m so sorry to hear. Oftentimes there are diseases that are simply out of our control. I can’t really imagine something this rapid being your fault or something wrong with the tank.

 

[BamaCoastPyrat]

I’m so sorry to hear. Oftentimes there are diseases that are simply out of our control. I can’t really imagine something this rapid being your fault or something wrong with the tank.

Thanks Sharkbait. Back to the drawing board.

 

[threebuoys]

Sorry for your loss. I know how frustrating this is.

Concerning the QT, did you have a cycled filtration system in place? Since both died so quickly and without obvious signs of parasites, I'm concerned that something was amiss in the QT. As others have suggested, ammonia may be the culprit. Water stability can be difficult to maintain in an uncycled QT.

I use the Salifert kit Vetteguy53081 recommended for ammonia.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I bought two Picasso Percula Clownfish on Wednesday. They have now been in my quarantine tank under observation for about 45 hours. One is approximately 1" in length and the others is approximately 1-1/4". The larger of the two has a white speck on its lip. We noticed this shortly after placing in the QT. Photos are (hopefully) attached. Last night I noticed that their breathing rate looked faster than I thought it should be. Today after getting home from work, the breathing rate has increased to a concerning level. The fish are also now swimming lethargically and listing to their side.

They have not eaten well since picking them up. I have seen them eat a few 0.8 mm pellets of sustainable aquatics clearly complete saltwater fish food. At lunch time today they let brine shrimp drop right in front of them and they did not touch them.

My ammonia is at 0.25 ppm, nitrite 0 ppm, nitrate 5 ppm. The water salinity from the LFS was at 1.0225 and I have raised that over the two days to 1.024 to be in line with my display tank. The current temperature in the QT is 79 degrees.

I have not started prophylactically treating yet. I am about to run to the store to pick up Coppersafe and Prazipro.

What might be going on?

I am tagging @Sharkbait19 and @Jay Hemdal because ya'll have been answering my questions about setting up my QT.

Are you sure the white bit isn't just some normal coloration? I don't see that it is raised up or anything.

The rapid breathing and lethargy is concerning. Could be water quality or gill disease.

0.25 ammonia can be a problem - especially if you are using a test kit like API that isn't very accurate (it could be higher). Do you have good aeration in the tank, not just circulation?

If you rule out water quality issues, then I would start a copper treatment with coppersafe today.......

Jay

 

[BamaCoastPyrat]

Was the QT cycled?

Total Ammonia of 0.25 is around 0.02 free ammonia which is toxic.

I'd use something like Prime to detox the ammonia to start with.

The tank was likely not properly cycled. I am doing copious research now on how to properly set up a QT.

 

[BamaCoastPyrat]

Are you sure the white bit isn't just some normal coloration? I don't see that it is raised up or anything.

The rapid breathing and lethargy is concerning. Could be water quality or gill disease.

0.25 ammonia can be a problem - especially if you are using a test kit like API that isn't very accurate (it could be higher). Do you have good aeration in the tank, not just circulation?

If you rule out water quality issues, then I would start a copper treatment with coppersafe today.......

Jay

Jay, I am not sure that the white spot is not normal coloration. Both of the fish died a few hours after making the post. I am attaching the best photo I could get of the white spot.

Now, how do I go about cleaning all equipment that was used in this failed quarantine so that I do not chance infecting future inhabitants? I have been unable to find anything on decontaminating a QT.