QT Fail
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Big G
captain dunsel
I wouldn't throw all 142 drops in at once. Spread it out over a few hours. Perhaps 25 drops at a shot every 45 minutes or so. Remember the copper doesn't kill the parasites that are attached; it kills the free swimming dinospores. The fish has to weather the already attached parasites. That's where the freshwater dip actually dislodges the parasites. Follow immediately with the Ruby Reef Rally which has both antibiotics and antiseptic qualities to help the fish avoid a bacterial infection that are common with velvet. Then the copper ramp up.So the Cupramine looks like I'm supposed to dose 20 drops/10.5 gallons. My tank is 75 gallons, so that would mean I'd need to do 142.8 drops or about 7.14 ML, the first day...then I wait 48 hours and do it the same thing. Always testing prior to make sure that copper concentration is 0.5mg/l daily....please let me know if my math is right, but I do believe it is. Poor blue hippo is constantly resting right now...I'm not sure he's going to survive the night
Big G
captain dunsel
Big G
captain dunsel
Emergency Treatment for Marine Velvet Disease
I recently acquired 3 fish - Longnose Butterfly, Kole Tang, Naso Tang - with velvet. None showed visible physical symptoms right away, but they all came from a tank where velvet was known to be present so I just patiently waited. Before & after pictures will follow immediately after this write-up.
In short, the Butterflyfish didn’t make it; however the two tangs did. The only difference in their treatment was I used formalin (with Methylene Blue) on the butterfly in a bath solution, whereas the tangs got acriflavine (with NO Methylene Blue). It’s also worth noting that the butterfly & Kole Tang showed symptoms the worst, whereas the Naso only had moderate visible symptoms. Tangs are also generally considered hardier than butterflyfish, so there’s that factor to consider as well. Anyway, here is the treatment I used on them:
The short version:
I recently acquired 3 fish - Longnose Butterfly, Kole Tang, Naso Tang - with velvet. None showed visible physical symptoms right away, but they all came from a tank where velvet was known to be present so I just patiently waited. Before & after pictures will follow immediately after this write-up.
In short, the Butterflyfish didn’t make it; however the two tangs did. The only difference in their treatment was I used formalin (with Methylene Blue) on the butterfly in a bath solution, whereas the tangs got acriflavine (with NO Methylene Blue). It’s also worth noting that the butterfly & Kole Tang showed symptoms the worst, whereas the Naso only had moderate visible symptoms. Tangs are also generally considered hardier than butterflyfish, so there’s that factor to consider as well. Anyway, here is the treatment I used on them:
The short version:
- 5 minute freshwater dip
- Immediately afterwards, perform a chemical bath (in saltwater matching SG/temp the fish came from). You have two options:
- Acriflavine (preferred) - Do the bath for 75-90 minutes, but remove the fish immediately at the first sign of distress. Aerate heavily both before & during the bath, and temperature control the water. The following products contain acriflavine: Acriflavine-MS and Ruby Reef Rally. DO NOT mix acriflavine with any other chemicals.
- Formalin - Do the bath for 30-60 minutes max, but remove the fish immediately at the first sign of distress. Aerate heavily both before & during the bath, and temperature control the water. The following products contain formalin: Formalin-MS, Quick Cure, Aquarium Solutions Ich-X, Kordon Rid-Ich Plus. Use protection (rubber gloves, face mask, eye protection, etc.) whenever handling formalin as it is a known carcinogen! However, you can add Methylene Blue to the formalin bath (1 capful per 2-3 gallons of bath water.)
- After the bath, place the fish in a QT pre-dosed at 80mg/gal using Chloroquine phosphate. In theory, copper (exs. Cupramine, Coppersafe, Copper Power) should work just as well as CP. However, due to how fast velvet can reproduce you don’t have the luxury of slowly ramping up the copper level as is normally advised. Therefore, the fish needs to be placed in a QT with copper already at minimum therapeutic levels. This is the advantage CP has over copper in this particular situation.
- While in QT, use a wide spectrum antibiotic (exs. Seachem Kanaplex, Furan-2) for the first week to ward off any possible bacterial infections. Secondary bacterial infections are very common in fish with preexisting parasitic infestations such as velvet.
- Keep the fish in CP or copper (at therapeutic levels) for one month. However, you can transfer the fish into a non-medicated holding tank for observation after just two weeks (explained below). DO NOT lower the CP or copper level before transferring.
HotRocks
Fish Fanatic!
So the Cupramine looks like I'm supposed to dose 20 drops/10.5 gallons. My tank is 75 gallons, so that would mean I'd need to do 142.8 drops or about 7.14 ML, the first day...then I wait 48 hours and do it the same thing. Always testing prior to make sure that copper concentration is 0.5mg/l daily....please let me know if my math is right, but I do believe it is. Poor blue hippo is constantly resting right now...I'm not sure he's going to survive the night
Math is correct. You won't reach the .5ppm till after 2nd round. But I wouldn't wait 48hrs for 2nd round. Spread out first round like had mentioned before or follow what @Big G said. Then do the same tomorrow. Essentially your ramping up to therapeutic over a 24hr period. Only recommended in this situation due to velvet.
In a preventative treatment I usually go slower than recommend.
Big G
captain dunsel
You should assume all of the fish have been attacked by the parasites. Their numbers expand almost exponentially. Careful is the word here. Take them one by one. If you are like me when stuff like this happens I get info overload and get anxious. Take a deep breath and just do your best. You will be fine. But some of those fish that are covered in spots are really up against the wall now. Beating velvet is tough. Humblefish's emergency plan "is" the best medicine.
The water is changed, the blue hippo has been dipped. I have a few errands to run, and when I get back, I'll start slowly adding Cupramine. Is it ok to add it directly to the water, or should I add it in the overflow?
Big G
captain dunsel
I like to add it directly into the water if I'm adding a small amount when doing a s-l-o-w ramp up. But when dosing large amounts I like to add it into a container with some tank water, mix and then pour into tank.
HotRocks
Fish Fanatic!
Add it to a high flow area like drop in front of powerhead. It disperses very quickly
lagatbezan
Well-Known Member
I would start adding the copper right away and not delay it. This way you can ramp it up slowly as soon as possible. a couple of hours makes a big difference when velvet is involved.
william.sting
Community Member
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There is a good article advanced aquarist. Pay special attention to the transfer method. This method is the only certain treatment other than possibly Chloroquine.
Comprehensive Marine Quarantine - Transfer Method II and Hyposalinity
https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2016/11/aafeature
You don't have to have expensive aquariums. Large tubs can work. Just get your water quality in line with large changes. Good luck!
Comprehensive Marine Quarantine - Transfer Method II and Hyposalinity
https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2016/11/aafeature
You don't have to have expensive aquariums. Large tubs can work. Just get your water quality in line with large changes. Good luck!
deedubz
nuttier than a squirrel turd
Typical ttm won't do anything for velvet...unless he transfers every 36 hours(which I believe is still theory)
I just did ttm/hypo for flukes and what I thought was ich. I'm currently treating with copper for velvet
I just did ttm/hypo for flukes and what I thought was ich. I'm currently treating with copper for velvet
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melypr1985
totally addicted
sounds like you've gotten good advice so far. Start the copper as soon as you can and bring it up to therapeutic within 24 hours. Best of luck!
You've gotten great advice indeed. Velvet is a beast! Copper wants to be raised slowly, but velvet won't let you. Best advice I can think of would be something that I think Big_G already mentioned - add smaller doses of copper, but over shorter periods - every 45 minutes or hour if you can manage it - until testing shows you've reached therapeutic strength - and then hang on for the ride. The copper won't affect the trophonts already feeding on the fish - the fish will have to ride those ones out - but it will prevent new ones from attaching.
~Bruce
~Bruce
miyags
Valuable Member
Have plenty of saltwater on hand. I just finished 5 small fish in a 20 long.grammas and damsels.For some reason this time around, I had a hard time dealing with ammonia .I had to add an extra sponge filter I had brewing in the sump. And 10 gallon water changes every 2 days.
Hey everyone...thanks for your help thus far. Hippo made it through the night, and I thought I lost her this morning but she was eating some seaweed and swimming around before...my fingers are crossed but it's a cautious optimism at this point. Even though I changed 40 gallons yesterday, i'm still getting 2.0 ppm when I do an ammonia test. Does the cupramine throw off a false negative on that test? I did also add a sponge, and just did my second dose of Seed (good bacteria). I started round two of cupramine about 30 minutes ago and will have the final 142 drops in by 10 pm tonight....I'm mostly worried about my ammonia levels right now, but if it's a false read, how do I get a more accurate read? All the fish seem to be acting normal, sans hippo who is taking it quite easy but i'm sure she's super stressed and a little weak and just trying to conserve her energy for the fight she's in I can't tell each of you how much your help and support has meant through this.
I can't tell each of you how much your help and support has meant through this.
