Question about TTM

Akira38

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So I want to get peoples initial thoughts before i give you my aquariums life story. So I'll give full details to my situation soon, but for now I have one main question.

What kind of affect does TTM have on Velvet? I know that it's not a cure for Velvet, but I started TTM with a Longhorn Cowfish on last Wednesday (06-20) for a case of Ich. While I personally suspected Ich, my local reef club was indecisive and couldn't choose between Ich or Velvet.

I will say that the Cowfish went from no visible spots to being COMPLETELY covered in a 24hr period. Now I'd estimate he has only 25% of visible spots that he had before treatment and I've only done 2 of the 5 transfers. Things are looking good at the moment but I fear this may be Velvet and the TTM is only delaying a disaster, not preventing it. I know more info is needed for a diagnosis, but before I add more variables to the equation, I was hoping someone would have experience TTM and the effects it might have on Velvet.

I appreciate any and all input! Thank you very much!!
 
If your fish was completely covered in 24hrs I would suspect velvet.

TTM will NOT erradicate velvet.

I have experience with alot of fish in QT. A cowfish is not one of them unfortunately.

Copper or CP will be necessary if it is indeed velvet.

@Humblefish @Big G @4FordFamily
 
You’d have to do daily transfers for velvet and I don’t think anyone has tried it successfully. Ultimately, @HotRocks is right. I agree.
 
I appreciate the responses and I agree with both of you. I was really hoping that I would come across someone who had a case where they thought they had Ich, treated with TTM, only to find that it was velvet. That way I could compare what I'm seeing to their experiences. I thought that if I had Velvet then I wouldn't see any improvement, but as of right now my little Cowfish only has about 12 spots.

I've done my homework over the last 6 months. I'm familiar with both parasites life stages, treatments, fallow periods ect. I just find it harder to identify which parasite it is, especially when I know that if I make the wrong decision I could be killing my fish.

Tomorrow evening I'll go ahead and post the whole story when I have access to a computer. I'll try adding some pics as well but I can't get the spots to show up on my camera, especially now that there are so few.

Again thank you very much for taking the time to help!
 
Ok, so this is the whole story. I know I made mistakes and I have learned from them. I know from reading what the differences are between Ich and Velvet but I cant tell them apart in person for whatever reason. This turned out to be a massive wall of text and I'm sure that 90% of it is useless info. Skip to the end for TLDR if needed.

07-10-17
I purchased a used aquarium that had been setup for 4 years. I took everything except the sand and the fish (didn't like it so I bought new sand) and set up the aquarium at my house. All he had was a single clownfish and a Damsel which I gave to my LFS. Between July and September I added a pair of Ocellaris Clowns, Sandsifting Goby, Powder Brown Tang, and a Sailfin Tang. These fish were QT and were healthy.

11-03-17
I saved up enough money to buy some decent T5 lights, so naturally I wanted some coral asap! Stupid me thinking that I knew more than I actually knew at the time did not QT my new corals, being a Duncan and 2 Toadstool Leathers. I thought "Why QT my first corals? If they have anything bad I don't have to worry about them infecting other corals because I don't have other corals". I was unaware of the possibility that anything wet could carry over Ich and other parasites, and in my case I was unfortunate enough to contaminate my aquarium with Ich. 100% sure it was Ich and only the Tangs were showing symptoms. I noticed symptoms about 2 weeks after the addition of the corals, but I don't have an exact date.

12-05-17
I moved all my fish over to a separate hospital tank for Cupramine treatment and to begin my fallow period. The very first night I lost the Goby. I had a tight fitting lid but he somehow managed to jump inside my HOB filter and died. I got the copper levels up to 0.6 mg/l and left it there for 11 weeks. I figured the longer the better since they weren't showing any ill effects. Yes I know that was a bad idea. Yes I know I likely caused damage to my fish. Lesson learned. But this is where I start to have concern because I never gave myself an observation period and I cant be 100% sure that they were cured, even though they hadn't shown any symptoms of Ich since week 2 of their treatment.

02-20-18
I add the fish back to my DT. While everyone is settling back in I decided to order a new Starfish online. I had a separate 10g system setup to QT him in as this was supposed to be a 2 inch star. Well "supposed" is the key word there because what I received was nearly a 10 inch star.... Not only was the star exponentially larger that what I ordered but it also had a damaged arm. Well he was too big for the 10g I had setup so I took the risk and put him straight into my DT to give him the best chance of survival. I know this may have been the wrong choice but I was in a tough spot. What's worse is that the star died 2 days later from its wound. If I knew how badly it was actually hurt then I probably would have done something different

The month of March
Throughout the month I didn't notice much in the way of symptoms, though there was some flashing from my Tangs but not a lot. No other symptoms and everyone was eating fine. Towards the end of the month I did a 3 day blackout to get rid of some Dino that I had. During this time I never got a good look at my fish but everyone seemed active and eating. When I turned my lights back on I noticed that all of my fish, including the clowns, were covered in either Ich or Velvet. I went ahead and started setting up the hospital tank again. I didn't have enough water mixed for an aquarium that large so I had to make more. I tried to catch them to do a FW dip but couldn't, but a few hours later when it was time to move them back to the hospital tank they were so sluggish that I could catch them by hand. Now this screams Velvet to me, Velvet that almost certainly came from the Seastar. Unfortunately Nothing survived. So its April 1st and were going fallow again.

05-09-18
I purchased a Longhorn Cowfish and put him into QT. I waited a while so all of my equipment could have a few weeks to sit outside in the sun before I got any new fish. A week later (the 16th) I did a large WC because the water was a little cloudy. I tested the water and saw that my ammonia was at 2ppm. In a panic I mix enough water to do a 90% WC, but to my surprise after my WC my ammonia was up to 6ppm. I tested my source water with a FW kit and it read 0 (zero)ppm, then mixed a new batch of saltwater and tested it after letting it mix for a few hours and it read 6-8ppm ammonia. So I figured that I just bought a bad batch of salt.

At this point my DT had been fallow for a little over 6 weeks, the fallow period for Velvet. So I made the decision to do a 90% WC with my DTs water to get the ammonia down in my QT. I figured that if my DT had Velvet then it should be gone now and if it was Ich that was fine because I was gonna Treat all new fish for Ich anyway.

06-13-18
My Cowfish is getting close to the end of his QT time when I notice a few spots on his dorsal fin but the next day they were gone. Regardless I had planned on doing TTM with him. I decided to wait a few days to start TTM because I was unsure which parasite it was. From what I've read you cant give Cowfish copper and I've been struggling to get my hands on CP.


I honestly think that when I did that blackout period it stressed my fish making them more susceptible to Ich and that either the Cupramine never cured them, or I added more when I dropped that Seastar in and it brought some Ich with it. I wouldn't think that my Cowfish has Velvet because he went around 5 weeks without any symptoms. I'm getting ready to do my 3rd Transfer now and there are NO visible spot on him. I can add pictures if necessary but atm theres nothing to see. I also have pics on the 4 fish I lost just after their deaths.


TLDR: I treated all the fish in my DT for Ich. After 11 weeks fallow I added them back but also added a Seastar without QT for reasons listed above. About a month later all the fish in my DT died very suddenly after a 3 day blackout to kill some Dino. After a few weeks I purchased a Longhorn Cowfish and put him in QT. After using what I believe to be a bad bucket of salt, my QT had sky high ammonia levels while my source water didn't. Since my DT had been fallow for more than 6 weeks I decided to do a WC with my DT water to lower the ammonia.

I started TTM because I felt this was Ich, though my local Reef Club couldn't come to a consensus. As of right now there are no visible spots on my fish and Im only 2/5 transfers in. So ultimately my question is...… Would I see results like these using TTM if my fish had Velvet?

Thanks!
 
Since the tomont stage is 48-96 hours I would think seeing some improvement would be expected. You're still outrunning at least a portion of new dinospores. As stated above it won't entirely eradicate it, and for treatment it usually needs to be ASAP or lose the fish, but if the fish was hanging in there I think what you are seeing would be expected. I've no clue if you would be better finishing the TTM and then into copper or CP since it's at least improving or stop the TTM and directly treat for velvet.
 

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