Skimmerless, will it work?

[Dogtown]

I'm going to try this first. Right now I pull quite a lot and have to do bi-weekly cleanings.

Last time I cleaned my skimmer cup was around November of last year. The skimmate drains into one of those David jones skimmate lockers so the skimmer cup is never even touched. Can ‘t see a reason to. Good luck!!

 

[PghReef]

I had a mixed reef tank that was skimmerless for a few years until I moved. I never had any tough acro sps but had plenty of montis and stylophora that grew awesome as well as Lps and softies. I ran BRS GAC mixed with a little seachem phosguard in a HOB filter. Did a 5 gallon water change every 2 weeks and changed the filter media every other water change.

 

[Yas]

I'm considering reducing my skimmer usage also, but want to offset with an airstone when the skimmer isn't skimming.
Perhaps 4 cycles of On / Off in day, to go 50%-50%. Test before and after.

What I noticed is that my lights above the chaeto is on 12hrs (offset to DT) and the chaeto has stopped growing. Tank is now at 7 months.
When tank was young - month 1 - 5 - the chaeto would grow like crazy - had to throw out half each week.
The last month or so, it is stable - not dying - but hardly growing.

None of my params are zero, none are very high / what I consider normal.

I do believe we can actually over-skim. I'm not using any reactors.

Yes, Mark. I'm also trying to find the balance. In my case, chaeto alone seems to be too powerful.

 

[Yas]

Glad it’s working for you. Like others, my skimmer is dialed way back to skim ultra dry. I go 2-3 weeks without needing to remove whatever skimmate it pulls out. I don’t want it removing too much tea.

Yeah if I woud do, I have to do ultra ultra dry like a stone otherwise corals would be starving!

 

[Yas]

I had a mixed reef tank that was skimmerless for a few years until I moved. I never had any tough acro sps but had plenty of montis and stylophora that grew awesome as well as Lps and softies. I ran BRS GAC mixed with a little seachem phosguard in a HOB filter. Did a 5 gallon water change every 2 weeks and changed the filter media every other water change.

Wow, a few years! That's pretty solid! Well I would go without reactors. Thanks for sharing your experience!

 

[samnaz]

I shut off my skimmer intending to give it a deep clean, but I got lazy and didn’t. That was two months ago and I haven’t noticed a change yet.

 

[Yas]

I shut off my skimmer intending to give it a deep clean, but I got lazy and didn’t. That was two months ago and I haven’t noticed a change yet.

My tank seems to have no adverse effect without a skimmer as well. It seems like I stopped overkilling. So maybe there could be a positive effect.

 

[Sealion]

No skimmer for me. From day one. I now have a refugium and it is full of macro algae. Tank is doing great.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

My tank seems to have no adverse effect without a skimmer as well. It seems like I stopped overkilling. So maybe there could be a positive effect.

Overkilling what?

 

[Dogtown]

Overkilling what?

I think he means overdoing it with the amount of filtration he has working in his system but I could be wrong. As in “it’s overkill” possibly?

 

[Steadyreef42]

I removed my skimmer from my first chamber when I realized my fuge was my filtration powerhouse. I love not having to clean a collection cup. Also just one less component to not worry about . It works for me and my 40 gal with 20 gal sump . I’m sure everybody’s system is different though

 

[Psustein]

Skimmerless is fine I like adding a marine pure block to up biological filter and get the refugium running at max. I like running a kessil h80 for maximum growth. This system takes the natural approach and has good results.

 

[brandon429]

The most eye catching part of this post was the .25 ammonia claim and only changing skimmer stopped that

Questions: is .25 ammonia sustained in a mature reef tank associated with any patterned key words on searches...how prevalent is that ..25 reading on the web compared to other ammonia readings? in the sustained .25 threads were any confounds to that reading stated?

A reef tank with coralline and aging to that degree shown here is known to process 3-6 ppm ammonia a day per cycling threads where we've tested live rock setups for oxidation ranges.

What mechanism here would be generating/ receiving that much ammonia continually and only be able to oxidize 90% of it, leaving the tail end non fluctuating on a daily basis?

Skimming is removing whole and partial proteins before degradation...ammonia spikes aren't found in skimmerless systems if those proteins break down within, they're often just higher nutrient systems. I am intently searching for the true mechanism of ammonia here. Ammonia should always be 100% predictable given verification of all higher tank animals namely fish. I've never seen hardware determine ammonia presence given that and any normal loading of live rock or live sand. I have only seen reef tanks present as excessive surface area present to fully oxidize tank waste which is hardly ever 5 ppm average. That's a massive fish only system few run that much nitrogen in a reef aquarium.

If we don't pinpoint the ammonia readings here then I'll be forever wondering about it

 

[Yas]

Overkilling what?

Hi Randy,

Well, what I meant was; in my current system, well-performing skimmer seemed to pull too much stuff, not only the gunk, but the beneficial bacteria or the nutrients needed to feed the bacteria, well this is just my guess though. Probably, without the large amount of chaeto currently working extremely well in my sump, this skimmer must had been a very useful tool for me. But with the good skimmer and extremely-working-well chaeto combined, my corals became pale and slowly dwindled.

When I started this hobby, I thought water has to be extremely clean, but now I believe it shouldn't be too clean. And I also didn't imagine chaeto can work so well. So this is a surprising discovery for me.

 

[Yas]

The most eye catching part of this post was the .25 ammonia claim and only changing skimmer stopped that

Questions: is .25 ammonia sustained in a mature reef tank associated with any patterned key words on searches...how prevalent is that ..25 reading on the web compared to other ammonia readings? in the sustained .25 threads were any confounds to that reading stated?

A reef tank with coralline and aging to that degree shown here is known to process 3-6 ppm ammonia a day per cycling threads where we've tested live rock setups for oxidation ranges.

What mechanism here would be generating/ receiving that much ammonia continually and only be able to oxidize 90% of it, leaving the tail end non fluctuating on a daily basis?

Skimming is removing whole and partial proteins before degradation...ammonia spikes aren't found in skimmerless systems if those proteins break down within, they're often just higher nutrient systems. I am intently searching for the true mechanism of ammonia here. Ammonia should always be 100% predictable given verification of all higher tank animals namely fish. I've never seen hardware determine ammonia presence given that and any normal loading of live rock or live sand. I have only seen reef tanks present as excessive surface area present to fully oxidize tank waste which is hardly ever 5 ppm average. That's a massive fish only system few run that much nitrogen in a reef aquarium.

If we don't pinpoint the ammonia readings here then I'll be forever wondering about it

Brandon429, all I can say is it happened to me. I don't know how it happened. But I didn't only stop the skimmer. I added two LED lights, one from above the chaeto, the other one at the bottom of the chaeto sump space. In my guess, the total of three, 24H LED lights helped the chaeto function.

 

[Stevesreef225]

I had a 50 gallon cube tank, that may as well of been skimmer less. Had a reef octopus classic 110. It was either trash or I couldn’t get it tuned properly. It never pulled anything out of the water. I had that tank up for 2 years with gfo, and 10% water changes every week.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I think he means overdoing it with the amount of filtration he has working in his system but I could be wrong. As in “it’s overkill” possibly?

I meant “what exactly does he think he is doing too much of. “. [emoji3]

 

[brandon429]

I could tell your tank was nicely aged

Coralline was a real stand out

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hi Randy,

Well, what I meant was; in my current system, well-performing skimmer seemed to pull too much stuff, not only the gunk, but the beneficial bacteria or the nutrients needed to feed the bacteria, well this is just my guess though. Probably, without the large amount of chaeto currently working extremely well in my sump, this skimmer must had been a very useful tool for me. But with the good skimmer and extremely-working-well chaeto combined, my corals became pale and slowly dwindled.

When I started this hobby, I thought water has to be extremely clean, but now I believe it shouldn't be too clean. And I also didn't imagine chaeto can work so well. So this is a surprising discovery for me.

FWIW, I think it is very debatable whether it is possible to remove too much bacteria or organics by skimming. Skimming doesn’t remove most bacteria that are bound to surfaces, or nitrate or phosphate.

I think it is easier to claim a skimmer is unnecessary than to make the case that it is “too effective”at most things. [emoji3]

 

[Yas]

I removed my skimmer from my first chamber when I realized my fuge was my filtration powerhouse. I love not having to clean a collection cup. Also just one less component to not worry about . It works for me and my 40 gal with 20 gal sump . I’m sure everybody’s system is different though

Egalindo2240, is the green plant real or artificial ornament? That's nice! I want to have one!