Still reading Nitrites after 7 weeks

[New9742]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the hobby and have been having some serious problems with my cycle/getting my tank up and underway, almost from day 1 it seems. (I have a full, detailed thread about it here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fluval-flex-15-jellyfish-conversion.964226/ ). Multiple people at two of my LFS and a friend with some good freshwater experience are stumped for some of my problems and I can't seem to find what I need reading through threads or any other type of research.

What brings me here today is that I am still having Nitrite issues a full 7 weeks after starting my cycle. I recognize the general opinion is that Nitrites really don't matter in the hobby and given the relatively low readings I'm getting I wouldn't be really that concerned about it if I was keeping a fish only or reef system, but I'm not. I'm attempting to keep Jellyfish in this tank of mine and in general they are very sensitive to suboptimal water conditions.

I did a full test of my water's parameters this morning and got these results:
NH4: 0.25-0.5 on API
NO2: 0 on API (It is a darker blue than the baby blue it starts as, but still very much blue) and reading 0.2 on a Red Sea Kit
NO3: 5-10 on API and 5 on Red Sea
Salinity: 1.023
Temp: 75.2
Alk: 8.9 on Salifert
pH: 8.15 on Salifert
PO4: Between 0.1 and 0.25 (Halfway or so in between?)

I've found my Red Sea kit to be pretty accurate and I've been happy with it. The results change as expected (ie: before and after a water change). Working on getting a better NH4 test kit, but my NH4 readings have consistently tested about 0.25-0.5 since the spike so I'm wondering if that's effectively my "Zero" on the API kit. My Nitrites are climbing right now and don't seem to be going away like they should and I'm just at a loss. This is after an 80% water change about 12 days ago now too at what should have been the 'end of my cycle'.

I've included some pictures of the results of my parameter tests. Please ignore the first parts of the graphs (I was experimenting a bit, I had a hard time reading API results, and it was a chaotic start) and pay attention from about 02/08 and onwards.

Any help or advice you guys could give me on this would be greatly appreciated. If you want/need more information I highly suggest you take a quick look at my thread I linked above as it details virtually everything I've done from the start on this, but I'm happy to reply here for whatever other information you want/need. I just really need my NH4 and NO2 to be zero and behave from now on. Thanks!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I'm not aware of any marine organism in 35 ppt seawater than is sensitive to less than one ppm of nitrite. I do not know anything about jellyfish in particular, but I would not anticipate an issue and I think it likely the kits is not very accurate at 0.2 ppm.

 

[New9742]

I'm not aware of any marine organism in 35 ppt seawater than is sensitive to less than one ppm of nitrite. I do not know anything about jellyfish in particular, but I would not anticipate an issue and I think it likely the kits is not very accurate at 0.2 ppm.

That's actually pretty comforting, thank you. It has been a learning curve for sure with this whole thing for me. I certainly don't know a ton about Jellyfish keeping in an aquarium (not for lack of trying), but everything I find is how even small fluctuations can be detrimental to their overall health and they generally don't tolerate semi-poor water parameters well. I didn't even think about the accuracy of the red sea kit playing into this, that's a good point. If nothing else, I guess just wait and see if levels keep rising? What would you recommend I do if that is the case?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

That's actually pretty comforting, thank you. It has been a learning curve for sure with this whole thing for me. I certainly don't know a ton about Jellyfish keeping in an aquarium (not for lack of trying), but everything I find is how even small fluctuations can be detrimental to their overall health and they generally don't tolerate semi-poor water parameters well. I didn't even think about the accuracy of the red sea kit playing into this, that's a good point. If nothing else, I guess just wait and see if levels keep rising? What would you recommend I do if that is the case?

Thanks for the help!

Looking at this graph, it looks like it bottomed out then bumped up a bit. I'm assuming that all those values near the end represent very low values of some sort and are not a concern, but if the values did start a real upward trend, that might be a time to add some additional bacteria of some sort.

 

[New9742]

Looking at this graph, it looks like it bottomed out then bumped up a bit. I'm assuming that all those values near the end represent very low values of some sort and are not a concern, but if the values did start a real upward trend, that might be a time to add some additional bacteria of some sort.

The values near the end (after the sharp drop on 2/28) were after an 80% or so water change and were almost effectively zero after that. There has definitely been a trend over the past couple of weeks since where things are starting to go up. I've been dosing MicroBacter7 as instructed (daily for two weeks with the large water change towards the end, but still a few days after as well), and once a week since. I'm almost through the bottle now too. I may just pick up a 2oz bottle of Dr Tim's all in one and dose the entire thing at once here soon if the trend continues over the next week. Thanks!

 

[kin_itsu]

I have the same question.After the two weeks of the fishlees cycle, I still test the nitrite about 0.1.The water is a bit of cloudy not so clear.

 

[brandon429]

kin

simply do a full water change and move forward, don't factor it in your cycle. the water change is to remove the clouding, which can either be substrate clouding or a bac bloom from dosing the copious feed we're trained to dose in a fishless cycle. at two weeks time frame, you're done, since all cycling charts show the ammonia drop before 14 days time. all of them. change water, begin, don't test for ammonia or nitrite on this display again or misreading will drive you crazy. (reef tanks handle their ammonia just fine if things are up and running/not in a power outage etc, and ammonia is the only param you need to wonder about regarding the cycle)

I can't agree with the above statement to add bacteria if the nitrite rises, this assumes the testing is valid in all cases and that a display reef well past the cycle date, stacked in rocks/surface area, might lose it's cycling ability. It's a prudent thing to offer, to reinforce systemic bacteria isn't harmful that's for sure, but it carries on the hint that at times a cycle just might undo itself and this cannot happen. the only times a cycle can be undone/prevented from working/overwhelmed are times that no test kit can help the matter:

someone adds in antibiotics and sustains them long enough to kill the biofilter (don't put antibiotics in a reef tank)
the flow is stopped to a reef tank, or temp control (reinstate them, no ammonia or nitrite test is needed to know if flow is stopped, just look at the tank)
fish die en masse from disease or hardware issues or mistakes by the keeper (no testing is needed to see fish dead, remove them, ammonia or nitrite didn't rise to kill the fish, the dead rotting fish rose the ammonia or nitrite)

you simply don't need to own a nitrite test kit unless you do specialized quarantine setups or freshwater tanks. they're not needed in display reefing and only cause unjustified reactive actions.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I have the same question.After the two weeks of the fishlees cycle, I still test the nitrite about 0.1.The water is a bit of cloudy not so clear.

Ignore the nitrite. It’s not important to measure.

 

[kin_itsu]

kin

simply do a full water change and move forward, don't factor it in your cycle. the water change is to remove the clouding, which can either be substrate clouding or a bac bloom from dosing the copious feed we're trained to dose in a fishless cycle. at two weeks time frame, you're done, since all cycling charts show the ammonia drop before 14 days time. all of them. change water, begin, don't test for ammonia or nitrite on this display again or misreading will drive you crazy. (reef tanks handle their ammonia just fine if things are up and running/not in a power outage etc, and ammonia is the only param you need to wonder about regarding the cycle)

I can't agree with the above statement to add bacteria if the nitrite rises, this assumes the testing is valid in all cases and that a display reef well past the cycle date, stacked in rocks/surface area, might lose it's cycling ability. It's a prudent thing to offer, to reinforce systemic bacteria isn't harmful that's for sure, but it carries on the hint that at times a cycle just might undo itself and this cannot happen. the only times a cycle can be undone/prevented from working/overwhelmed are times that no test kit can help the matter:

someone adds in antibiotics and sustains them long enough to kill the biofilter (don't put antibiotics in a reef tank)
the flow is stopped to a reef tank, or temp control (reinstate them, no ammonia or nitrite test is needed to know if flow is stopped, just look at the tank)
fish die en masse from disease or hardware issues or mistakes by the keeper (no testing is needed to see fish dead, remove them, ammonia or nitrite didn't rise to kill the fish, the dead rotting fish rose the ammonia or nitrite)

you simply don't need to own a nitrite test kit unless you do specialized quarantine setups or freshwater tanks. they're not needed in display reefing and only cause unjustified reactive actions.

Thanks for your reply.I tried to setup this tank by following the fishless cycle.Just try to verify the procedure is correct.I thought that fishless cycle would mainly avoid the ugly phrase.Then I happen to this problem.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I thought that fishless cycle would mainly avoid the ugly phrase.Then I happen to this problem.

I don’t think it does.

 

[brandon429]

It’s true that fishless cycle videos + any training by Dr Tim says to factor nitrite, and test for it, and respond with actions when it still reads above zero on week 7 (they say it means a stalled cycle)

the reason reef2reef crew says opposite is because we are pumping out the new information based on light speed # of cycles being worked under the new ruleset and the trainers / bottle bac sellers have yet to adopt this new info. Such is cycling procedure evolution. If you had a common stack of rocks in a typical reef setup of bottle bac + feed in place this whole time, that cycle is done and not stalled = the new rules based on inherent timing alignments tank to tank, where testing doesn’t matter much at all now.

 

[exnisstech]

I have the same question.After the two weeks of the fishlees cycle, I still test the nitrite about 0.1.The water is a bit of cloudy not so clear.

@New9742

This tank is my first time doing a fishless cycle using bottled bacteria. This is day 115.
What I really want to say tho is I do not even own a nitrite or ammonia test kit. Once I see nitrates rising I call it cycled and move forward slowly.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

the reason reef2reef crew says opposite is because we are pumping out the new information based on light speed # of cycles being worked under the new ruleset and the trainers / bottle bac sellers have yet to adopt this new info.

The reason I say different is because nitrite is not toxic in marine systems. It's not based on new information. I've been saying it for nearly 20 years.

 

[brandon429]

agreed, but the reasons we can't find that in any training online other than yours, or from other sites, or from any reef tank cycling material is in my opinion because using the old cycling science way sells more bottle bac. Your statement sells less, eases concerns over stalling, so it's less popular.

It's a fascinating public perception to consider that your article is from ~2005 but even this week and every other coming week in online reefing across any forum we'll see countless nitrite-concerned posts for reef displays. marketing vs truth is how I see it, the marketers have reached the wider audience. it's fun to be in the middle of correcting that balance though.

step one to mass correction: can we please get a MACNA speaker to state the truth version, so that wider audiences learn that messing with nitrite in a reef display isn't where the effort belongs. We for sure already have a macna video on file stating that it does matter during cycling, and that reached a massive audience. and it sold a million redundant/unneeded bottle bac sales too.