Treating SCTLD
- Thread starter Andrews_aquarium
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OP
OP
Andrews_aquarium
Active Member
Exactly,
I have a 15lbs batch sitting in a Rubbermaid that I received a month ago that I am going to test. I will send out to AquaBiomics in a month after I receive my next test back to see if it actually eliminated it. My only fear is that I only knocked it back and did not eliminate complexly, but we will see.
HeyLookItsCaps
Well-Known Member
Are you doing this broadcast across the whole system?
Caribbean rock is most likely Florida rock. Depending on where you got your LR from could tell a lot. I’d stay away from gulf coast LR. All kinds of $*** gets washed into the gulf/FL bay via runoff especially spring/summer months which would put you at about the time you got that rock. This past year the gulf had an extreme die-off of marine life. Hundreds of thousands of dead fish, and even turtles and sea mammals rotting in the gulf. It was a literal cesspool.
It would be in anyone’s best interest to cycle LR coming from FL waters before putting into a tank with corals, though I don’t think this is a common occurrence. It may become one due to all the same reasons the reefs have declined here, or anywhere with heavy agricultural and urban runoff.
It would be in anyone’s best interest to cycle LR coming from FL waters before putting into a tank with corals, though I don’t think this is a common occurrence. It may become one due to all the same reasons the reefs have declined here, or anywhere with heavy agricultural and urban runoff.
I don’t know the science behind this, but I was diving a few spots in the keys a month or so back and saw a lot of the newer Cervicornis and Palmata plantings that had started to take off, were now all STNing from the base up.
OP
OP
Andrews_aquarium
Active Member
Yes I did it system wide, everything is still looking great at the moment.
OP
OP
Andrews_aquarium
Active Member
UPDATE:
Not a good sign at the moment. My Anacropora has started to STN/RTN in the same fashion as before. Coincidentally this was the very first coral awhile back that first showed signs of the disease. So it seems like its starting all over again on the same coral and in the same place as when it began. I had a tiny frag on a Montipora Stellata right next to the Anacropora which died extremely fast, this was also a coral that was affected very quickly before my first treatment. Here is what it looks like this evening, and this is exactly what it did the first time around:
So im also starting to wonder if the Triton RTN/STN-X really did a lot more than I first thought. It is an Inhibitor by definition which could have been keeping the disease at bay this whole time despite the Ciprio. It has been exactly one week since my last daily dose of the product.
To back up this thought my Apex Trident has been testing 6 times a day for ALK throughout this whole treatment. At the beginning of the treatment my dosing was very low from previous months as the Acros were consuming less because they were battling the disease. After the first 3 days of treatment of Cirprio and Triton my AlK consumption started to climb each week until they were even above my levels before I ever noticed signs of the disease. After finishing my treatment a week ago every day my Alk consumption has very subtly been dropping each day. It seems to be in conjunction with the Triton RTN/STN-X inhibitor, this is also very theoretical as we all know how iffy home testing can be, but I think its worth noting.
So my next move is to try one more treatment of Ciprio and Triton RTN/STN-X again, I am going to be more than doubling the dose this time:
Ciprofloxacin will be 0.375 mg / L instead of the first treatment at 0.125 mg / L. Which will equal 9.9 ml dose 3 times spread out every other day for 6 days.
Triton STN/RTN-X will also be doubled from previous dose:
Initial Dose:
RTN-X: 5ml
STN-X: 5ml
The daily dose for 21 days:
RTN-X: .70 ml
STN-X: .50 ml
Im also going to be doing all the dosing at night this time, as I've been reading that UV could effect the treatment, this seems improbable but I might as well try.
I will post updates as they come.
@AquaBiomics
Not a good sign at the moment. My Anacropora has started to STN/RTN in the same fashion as before. Coincidentally this was the very first coral awhile back that first showed signs of the disease. So it seems like its starting all over again on the same coral and in the same place as when it began. I had a tiny frag on a Montipora Stellata right next to the Anacropora which died extremely fast, this was also a coral that was affected very quickly before my first treatment. Here is what it looks like this evening, and this is exactly what it did the first time around:
So im also starting to wonder if the Triton RTN/STN-X really did a lot more than I first thought. It is an Inhibitor by definition which could have been keeping the disease at bay this whole time despite the Ciprio. It has been exactly one week since my last daily dose of the product.
To back up this thought my Apex Trident has been testing 6 times a day for ALK throughout this whole treatment. At the beginning of the treatment my dosing was very low from previous months as the Acros were consuming less because they were battling the disease. After the first 3 days of treatment of Cirprio and Triton my AlK consumption started to climb each week until they were even above my levels before I ever noticed signs of the disease. After finishing my treatment a week ago every day my Alk consumption has very subtly been dropping each day. It seems to be in conjunction with the Triton RTN/STN-X inhibitor, this is also very theoretical as we all know how iffy home testing can be, but I think its worth noting.
So my next move is to try one more treatment of Ciprio and Triton RTN/STN-X again, I am going to be more than doubling the dose this time:
Ciprofloxacin will be 0.375 mg / L instead of the first treatment at 0.125 mg / L. Which will equal 9.9 ml dose 3 times spread out every other day for 6 days.
Triton STN/RTN-X will also be doubled from previous dose:
Initial Dose:
RTN-X: 5ml
STN-X: 5ml
The daily dose for 21 days:
RTN-X: .70 ml
STN-X: .50 ml
Im also going to be doing all the dosing at night this time, as I've been reading that UV could effect the treatment, this seems improbable but I might as well try.
I will post updates as they come.
@AquaBiomics
sculpin01
Well-Known Member
Personally, I’d dose daily for 10 days. Standard procedure for human infections is 7-10 days of daily antibiotic dosing, so you may have failed to clear the infection. Alternatively, addition of a second antibiotic the bacteria is susceptible to (amoxicillin +/- doxycycline) may be useful. The original article from Aquabiomics was in regard to Brown Jelly Disease, which may be more susceptible to ciprofloxacin than the bacteria you are treating. The SCTLD literature treats with an antibiotic paste which insures long dwell time. Make sure you have UV off and no activated carbon in your system.
OP
OP
Andrews_aquarium
Active Member
Its funny you mention this, I was thinking the same thing. I figured I should throw everything at it this time as the last treatment made a significant positive change.
I think im going to add two additional dosing days of Cipro and in between those days dose Amoxicillin at 0.125 mg / L.
I have been running no Carbon also, I don't use UV. I also removed my Skimmer cup and letting the bubbles come out the top. I will run it like this for 7 more days during the whole treatment then perform a 25% water change on the system.
Im sure Im going to get Dinos after this, such a Anti-bac could definitely cause an outbreak.
sculpin01
Well-Known Member
Dinos are typically responsive to nutrient imbalance. Assuming reasonable nitrate and phosphate levels, I wouldn’t expect it.
Assuming successful treatment, you might want to eventually get some rubble from Aquabiomics to add bacteria back to your system.
Assuming successful treatment, you might want to eventually get some rubble from Aquabiomics to add bacteria back to your system.
Ali-F
Active Member
Hellow,
I have the same issue and am going crazy because I have no idea what is happening in my tank and why my corals are dying even though water parameters and chemistry are perfect. The tank and corals were okay for almost a year. I do WC and ICP tests on a monthly basis. Following the Triton method, the consumption was increasing gradually but out of blue the kh consumption dropped down significantly and colours of some corals became gray while others lost the tissue in a different ratio. I had my doubts and started to act carefully to know the cause. I reduced the light intensity, increased the nutrition a little bit, stopped flatworm stop and coral booster, increased the temp from 22 to 24... all of these were done over a long period as I don't want to cause another stress factor but still corals are not recovering. I am desperately watching my corals decay one after the other and telling myself that soon I'll have to start again from scratch.
Most of the discussion here is not clear for me and I would love it if someone can simplify it. The Aquabiomics test is something new to me and I don't know how to read the results!! The medicine mentioned here too, are they meant for corals or they are for human consumption? My tank is 1300l and I wonder what would be the right dose of STN-X and RTN-X?
I have the same issue and am going crazy because I have no idea what is happening in my tank and why my corals are dying even though water parameters and chemistry are perfect. The tank and corals were okay for almost a year. I do WC and ICP tests on a monthly basis. Following the Triton method, the consumption was increasing gradually but out of blue the kh consumption dropped down significantly and colours of some corals became gray while others lost the tissue in a different ratio. I had my doubts and started to act carefully to know the cause. I reduced the light intensity, increased the nutrition a little bit, stopped flatworm stop and coral booster, increased the temp from 22 to 24... all of these were done over a long period as I don't want to cause another stress factor but still corals are not recovering. I am desperately watching my corals decay one after the other and telling myself that soon I'll have to start again from scratch.
Most of the discussion here is not clear for me and I would love it if someone can simplify it. The Aquabiomics test is something new to me and I don't know how to read the results!! The medicine mentioned here too, are they meant for corals or they are for human consumption? My tank is 1300l and I wonder what would be the right dose of STN-X and RTN-X?
sculpin01
Well-Known Member
Aquabiomics will run a bacterial profile for your tank to determine if you have any coral damaging bacteria (e.g. Vibrio coralliilyticus). Additionally, I would post pics of the dying corals to see if there are any indications of a causative organism. Dipping the corals (I’m a fan of potassium-based dips) is also indicated to look for macroscopic coral predators. Make sure your nitrate and phosphate levels aren’t extremely low as this can cause abiotic tissue loss. Finally, scrape off the dying coral tissue and view it with a microscope. If you see spinning lenticular organisms, you have Ostreopsis.
OP
OP
Andrews_aquarium
Active Member
If you want to try the Triton STN/RTN-X they have a calculator on the website that you can correlate with your recent Triton N-DOC test to see what to dose.
And the antibiotics all mentioned are being used in the aquarium.
OP
OP
Andrews_aquarium
Active Member
Another bad update:
The SCTLD has seemed to go into complete overdrive. I have been loosing multiple colonies a day at this point. The montiporas have really been hit the hardest, followed by Milliporas and tabling acros.
The treatment did absolutely nothing this time around, it almost seemed like it fueled the situation.
This Capricornis is a good example of how its attacking the colony:
This Gray "Band" is literally eating away at the tissue, this is one day of die off. This one has been terribly fast. But the gray seems to be the bacterial infection or SCTLD. Notice how the coral is perfectly healthy on the other side. This is pretty common with the encrusting and plating corals with the disease that ive noticed.
And no there are NO Monti eating nudis, that's just slime with sand pieces and detritus caught in it as the coral dies.
Here is a tabling acro frag that grayed out in one day:
And a Montipora Digita getting it as well, this is about 2-3 hours of damage:
Also here is some microscope pics at 10x of a Millipora and Monti Digitata:
Im at a loss honestly, not sure what is left to do. Im basically at the point where im leaving the tank alone and whatever survives SPS wise I will keep and let it grow. But if too many die I will be restarting the tank from scratch. If anyone has any other suggestions for a tank wide treatment-which is the only option as its obviously everywhere, even the pipes( which is where my DNA tests was taken form ) then please make suggestions.
All parameter are still stable:
PH:8.2-8.4
Alk:8.2
CA:425
NO3: 5.5
PO4:.03
Please no suggestions for parameters, I need a fix for bacterial or disease treatment.
The SCTLD has seemed to go into complete overdrive. I have been loosing multiple colonies a day at this point. The montiporas have really been hit the hardest, followed by Milliporas and tabling acros.
The treatment did absolutely nothing this time around, it almost seemed like it fueled the situation.
This Capricornis is a good example of how its attacking the colony:
This Gray "Band" is literally eating away at the tissue, this is one day of die off. This one has been terribly fast. But the gray seems to be the bacterial infection or SCTLD. Notice how the coral is perfectly healthy on the other side. This is pretty common with the encrusting and plating corals with the disease that ive noticed.
And no there are NO Monti eating nudis, that's just slime with sand pieces and detritus caught in it as the coral dies.
Here is a tabling acro frag that grayed out in one day:
And a Montipora Digita getting it as well, this is about 2-3 hours of damage:
Also here is some microscope pics at 10x of a Millipora and Monti Digitata:
Im at a loss honestly, not sure what is left to do. Im basically at the point where im leaving the tank alone and whatever survives SPS wise I will keep and let it grow. But if too many die I will be restarting the tank from scratch. If anyone has any other suggestions for a tank wide treatment-which is the only option as its obviously everywhere, even the pipes( which is where my DNA tests was taken form ) then please make suggestions.
All parameter are still stable:
PH:8.2-8.4
Alk:8.2
CA:425
NO3: 5.5
PO4:.03
Please no suggestions for parameters, I need a fix for bacterial or disease treatment.
OP
OP
Andrews_aquarium
Active Member
The
They are 4x, no brown spots are not moving.
OP
OP
Andrews_aquarium
Active Member
Yeah I figured that, just wanted to show what it looked like through a magnifying glass.
sculpin01
Well-Known Member
Given that, I would suggest you treat this as an Ostreopsis outbreak. Stop any amino acid supplementation, run the biggest UV you can get for 2 weeks continuously, and run a large amount of carbon actively (not passively).
This pattern of coral death is exactly what happened when I had a major Ostreopsis outbreak (it came in on a frag from one of the sellers on here, unfortunately). Random extremely rapid coral tissue loss, scrapings revealed microscopic brown dots (later found to be Ostreopsis cf. ovata), corals looked sick (as with your tabling acro), and my tank water eventually looked brownish.
This pattern of coral death is exactly what happened when I had a major Ostreopsis outbreak (it came in on a frag from one of the sellers on here, unfortunately). Random extremely rapid coral tissue loss, scrapings revealed microscopic brown dots (later found to be Ostreopsis cf. ovata), corals looked sick (as with your tabling acro), and my tank water eventually looked brownish.
OP
OP
Andrews_aquarium
Active Member
Well, things keep going, loosing pieces everyday. Wanted to post this picture to show what a standard SCTLD wipeout looks like on an Acropora. This colony was perfectly fine at 10 am today and this is 7pm on the same day. It was forrest green with red tips, now its Gray on its way to complete RTN.
