Two fish dead, third struggling!

[SallyWho]

I've had three firefish in QT for a while, and they've been doing great. Eating like hogs, not being too shy, etc. This morning I get home from work, two of them are dead, and the third is having trouble. Sort of swimming a bit vertically (head down), or tucking itself into a corner of the tank or under one of the PVC pieces in there. First thing I did was testing:

Temp: 78°F
Salinity: 1.025
pH: 7.6
Ammonia: ammonia alert badge 0, Red Sea 0.2
Nitrite: 0.2
Nitrate: 10

The pH might be a bit on the low side- I guess the internal hang-on filter and the powerhead near the surface aren't doing a good enough job with gas exchange. I'll add an air stone (assuming fish #3 survives). The only thing I can think of is that I started chloroquine phosphate treatment 3 days ago. But according to the chart in the Fish Diseases and Treatment forum, firefish are supposed to tolerate CP pretty well. Could they be having a poor reaction? Either way, I'm prepping saltwater for a 50% water change, and will add a media bag of carbon to the filter afterwards. Any ideas why I suddenly lost two fish, and advice on how to save the third?

 

[Billldg]

I would test ammonia with a kit, I have had bad luck with the badges not reacting quick enough to conditions

 

[MnFish1]

1. How long have they been in quarantine (you said a while - is that a couple days or a couple weeks)? Could it be a disease?
2. Why did you add the CP (any possibility of an overdose?)
3. The lower the pH the more toxic ammonia is.
4. The carbon will also remove the CP (so if you started it for a reason it will be gone)
5. Are you sure you're pH test (and ammonia) tests are accurate?

 

[SallyWho]

I would test ammonia with a kit, I have had bad luck with the badges not reacting quick enough to conditions

I did both. The badge says zero, and Red Sea says 0.2. I read somewhere that certain meds can affect ammonia testing, but I couldn't remember if it was just certain ammonia kits or all of them, so I went ahead to used my Red Sea kit in addition to looking at the badge.

 

[MnFish1]

I did both. The badge says zero, and Red Sea says 0.2. I read somewhere that certain meds can affect ammonia testing, but I couldn't remember if it was just certain ammonia kits or all of them, so I went ahead to used my Red Sea kit in addition to looking at the badge.

The ammonia should be zero - Would Prime help?

 

[Billldg]

You might have had an ammonia spike, I would do a partial water change, and test ammonia again and if needed use prime. Good luck, but don't get tunnel vision as I am only telling you what I think, their could be other reasons that more seasoned reefers could tell you to look for.

 

[SallyWho]

1. How long have they been in quarantine (you said a while - is that a couple days or a couple weeks)? Could it be a disease?
2. Why did you add the CP (any possibility of an overdose?)
3. The lower the pH the more toxic ammonia is.
4. The carbon will also remove the CP (so if you started it for a reason it will be gone)
5. Are you sure you're pH test (and ammonia) tests are accurate?

1. They've been in QT since 7/26. I let them get settled in for a bit, did a couple rounds of Prazi, did some water changes/ran some carbon to get all the prazi out, and tried to get my hands on some CP for a while.
2. I was treating with CP to prophylactically treat for ich and velvet. Want to try to keep those out of my display.
3. I figured it was too low- will adding an air stone for better gas exchange help?
4. If the CP is causing the problem, I'm more than okay with letting the carbon suck it out!
5. I'm reasonably sure my pH and ammonia tests are accurate. Red Sea kits don't usually go haywire, do they? My only back up testing are some super crappy test strips from Walmart's meager pet supply section.

 

[SallyWho]

You might have had an ammonia spike, I would do a partial water change, and test ammonia again and if needed use prime. Good luck

The ammonia should be zero - Would Prime help?

Assuming the Red Sea ammonia kit is accurate, would a 0.2 be enough of a spike to kill off two fish? I mean, I can see it being a problem if it reaches, like, 2 or something, but 0.2? Regardless, I'm mixing fresh saltwater now for a 50% water change.

 

[SallyWho]

It might be worth mentioning that I'm using New Life Spectrum Ick Shield, which lists CP as its main ingredient, but doesn't list concentration and isn't pharmaceutical grade. I'd heard it was about as close as one could get without a prescription, so I thought I'd give it a go.

 

[Billldg]

It might be worth mentioning that I'm using New Life Spectrum Ick Shield, which lists CP as its main ingredient, but doesn't list concentration and isn't pharmaceutical grade. I'd heard it was about as close as one could get without a prescription, so I thought I'd give it a go.

Wish I could help more

 

[MnFish1]

1. They've been in QT since 7/26. I let them get settled in for a bit, did a couple rounds of Prazi, did some water changes/ran some carbon to get all the prazi out, and tried to get my hands on some CP for a while.
2. I was treating with CP to prophylactically treat for ich and velvet. Want to try to keep those out of my display.
3. I figured it was too low- will adding an air stone for better gas exchange help?
4. If the CP is causing the problem, I'm more than okay with letting the carbon suck it out!
5. I'm reasonably sure my pH and ammonia tests are accurate. Red Sea kits don't usually go haywire, do they? My only back up testing are some super crappy test strips from Walmart's meager pet supply section.

Fresh air should help the pH. (an open window)
Prime will help the ammonia.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Appears to be low oxygen, minimal filtration and in a QT tank, I would not fret about PH with fish as I would with coral.
Sudden death may be development of bacteria especially with your now headswimmer or velvet (Oodinum). Headswimming is an affected swim bladder and difficukt to treat. Start with water change and perhaps have your LFS store do a water test to see how your and their tests compare

 

[domination2580]

I would test ammonia with a kit, I have had bad luck with the badges not reacting quick enough to conditions

Test kits won't read correctly with the meds in the tank

 

[SallyWho]

Test kits won't read correctly with the meds in the tank

My LFS uses the same kits I do. :/

 

[Maritimer]

Copper renders most ammonia kits pretty useless, which is why folks keep an ammonia badge in their QTs. Copper would also render Prime lethal, as Prime changes copper to a much more toxic form.

Since you're using CP instead, (NLS Ich-Shield), I'm not sure what effect that would have on either liquid ammonia tests or Prime. Any aeration should be helpful - airstone or powerhead pointed at the surface.

~Bruce