Two part dosing vs reactors

[Reef Empire]

We've always had a reactor on the farm and stock tanks, but never on the show tanks... I've been dosing WM CalMax for years in this system that has a substantial demand for calcium/alkalinity with no problems... Twice a week, every week...

 

[Acronuts]

Today I went to one of my LFS and learned a little bit more about dosing products.
I know that top of the line is a ca reactor w/ co2 plus controller running about $700.

Next a kalk,stiring doser by itself about $250 needs a pump to work add another $100. According to store help I would need an ATO to have this method work. Add another $100 to $150.

Finally a doser with three dispencing pumps plus controller runs about $350
All the above mentioned are aqua medic products.

Don't worry guys I am NOT going to run out and buy anything yet.
I can barely understand the relationship between ca,alk and mg and ph.I've got some reading material that will help in this department.

Anyhow in order to make me feel better I did find some very nice corals and a pinpoint probe to measure PH. LOL!
I'll keep my quest to understand!
Thanks for your help and input!

 

[Mr.Firemouth]

Reef Fanatic makes the best Co2 regulator, a welding supply store will sell/lease you a tank, and the ReefMania Ca Reactors are cheaper version of the GEO style reactor that work fine! Make sure you get the appropriate pH holder. Milwaukee pH controllers are what I use.

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...roduct_Code=MIL-SM122&Category_Code=Milwaukee

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...roduct_Code=RF-CO2-REG&Category_Code=co2units

The CR250 is $200
http://www.reefmania.net/products-calcium.php

The pH probe holder is $25

Total set up $525-ish

You can get complete used set ups for $350 too if you watch the classifieds.

 

[gnoles]

I have a GEO as well, now to install it.

 

[I-K@ndY]

I use LM III on my 180 and for the 2 cube using Deltec 601s

 

[JR's Reef]

I use LM III dosing 2part

 

[itachi]

Geo 6x18 , have to say i am very impressed i am with this,very very well made easy to service .
( owned a koralin in the past ) ..

 

[Acronuts]

Where can I kook at GEO's anf LM III's? I know my lfs's don't on stock.

 

[cloakerpoked]

Also I have read that the calcium part contains salt. How do you keep your salinity stable?

While this is true to an extent, its not as though the salt will accumulate over a short period of time. If you never did water changes, then it would cause a problem, but for all intensive purposes, if you're doing monthly water changes and add a slightly lower salinity makeup water when appropriate, you should never have a problem with this.

The reason it happens is that some (not all) 2 parts use a salt based compound (I believe it's Calcium Chloride, but don't quote me on that) to get the Ca+ ions into the water.

 

[naldopr]

juan this guy have a geo for sale and cheap

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1643013

 

[schminksbro]

Here is a link to a GEO dealer. Deb is great and will take good care of you.
http://diyreef.com/shop/index.php

Where can I kook at GEO's anf LM III's? I know my lfs's don't on stock.

 

[Acronuts]

Hey naldopr,
Is this guy located in Orlando?

 

[naldopr]

I think so

 

[naldopr]

by the way I'm Arnaldo are you lewis friends? aquamania

 

[stunreefer Verified Sponsor]

I am curious what you do when consumption rate exceeds your evaporation rate or if this is possible.

When dosing 2-part or "balling" you don't base it off of evaporation at all (the amount you dose is minimal compared to evap. rate). Personally I'm not a big fan of tying in top-off and Ca/Alk stability because the rate at which they're depleted are not connected whatsoever, however, you can make it work depending on the system by running top-off through Kalk Rx. Some people do address evaporation with the "full-balling method" in attempt to keep all parameters "spot-on" (which IMO is never necessary), which ties into your next question...

Also I have read that the calcium part contains salt. How do you keep your salinity stable?

As cloakerpoked stated, CaCl is the Ca supplement people use in a 2-part system (and balling light) and yes salinity levels can raise if remained unchecked, but even with small 5-10% water changes (at least bi-weekly) everything stays right in line.

The "full-balling" method utilizes Cl free salts many times in order to avoid the above issue... I won't get into this - if you're interested I can point you in the right direction, but IMO "full-balling" is more than I want to do (and most people)...


I couldn't have said it better than Mr. Firemouth:

The thing is though, for any method to really work you have to first understand it. Understand what is happening and how, so you use the technique properly.
With that said, most people crash a system with CA Reactors and 2-part systems by not making the right choices, aka User Error.

This goes for EVERYTING in the reefing hobby, whether it be filtration, lighting, etc., etc., etc.

A refugium is no better than a Bacterial Driven system which is no better than a Wet/Dry filter which is no beter than an algae scrubber... the list goes on and on... the desicion needs to be made beased on what's going in your tank, how/who is maintaining it, and a few other factors.

There is no best way; To each his own; A million ways to skin a cat.

 

[schminksbro]

I am not interested in going to 2 part. I am very happy with my reactor. I was just wondering. I would think on a large system with strong demand dosing would be an expensive hassle. JMHO without doing a heck of alot of research.

When dosing 2-part or "balling" you don't base it off of evaporation at all (the amount you dose is minimal compared to evap. rate). Personally I'm not a big fan of tying in top-off and Ca/Alk stability because the rate at which they're depleted are not connected whatsoever, however, you can make it work depending on the system by running top-off through Kalk Rx. Some people do address evaporation with the "full-balling method" in attempt to keep all parameters "spot-on" (which IMO is never necessary), which ties into your next question...

As cloakerpoked stated, CaCl is the Ca supplement people use in a 2-part system (and balling light) and yes salinity levels can raise if remained unchecked, but even with small 5-10% water changes (at least bi-weekly) everything stays right in line.

The "full-balling" method utilizes Cl free salts many times in order to avoid the above issue... I won't get into this - if you're interested I can point you in the right direction, but IMO "full-balling" is more than I want to do

 

[stunreefer Verified Sponsor]

I would think on a large system with strong demand dosing would be an expensive hassle. JMHO without doing a heck of alot of research.

I agree... I'd get skeptical - strictly based on cost - at around 200 gals.

I know someone who has a 500 gal + SPS system that runs full ZEOvit and Full Balling method with Fauna Marin salts... talk about money out the whazoo! :neutral:

 

[chefzif]

I use Aqua Medic Reef doser and I see a great coral growth and my peramiters stay rock solid and solid PH

 

[mattmike]

Ya I'm happy I came across this thread because I was thinking the same thing...More headaches to have more reactors. I feel if I do my weekly water changes it keeps the levels up to par!

 

[cloakerpoked]

Ya I'm happy I came across this thread because I was thinking the same thing...More headaches to have more reactors. I feel if I do my weekly water changes it keeps the levels up to par!

Do you "feel" like it does, or does your levels testing confirm that it does?

As far as anyone else who might come across this thread, I'd imagine that if you bought DIY two part from a vendor like bulk reef supply where you can make literally 5-7 gallons of both two part solutions for $30, I think it then becomes a lot more viable and economic to use two part than buying a product like B-Ionic is.

The biggest thing of importance (and I don't think I've read it anywhere on this thread which is why I'm making the point now) is that no matter what method you use, you should frequently test your system to make sure that you are achieving your desired results, and not drastically altering tank parameters.