Water memory, structured water

reeffirstaid · Jun 16, 2015

I wondered if anyone was familiar with this concept, and what it could mean for reef aquarists. If you are totally unfamiliar with the theory behind water memory, here is a good video on it

I am sure throughout the course of discussion, the ideas behind water memory will become apparent, and I will share my thoughts on how it may pertain to our aquariums, as we go along.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 16, 2015

I've VERY familiar with the structure of water.

The video is hogwash. Best suited for people who believe in ghosts, UFOs, and astrology.

It has zero utility for reef aquarists.

Hopefully you are not going to try to convince us to buy a product that will re-energize our water.

reeffirstaid · Jun 16, 2015

Nope not at all. Was simply interested if any real scientific evidence existed in favor of structured water.

redfishbluefish · Jun 16, 2015

I need to whisper this just in case I'm wrong and the water hears me..............Hogwash!

There are so many wrongs in that video, I don't know where to begin.....but if you believe this, I also have a bridge I could sell you.

reeffirstaid · Jun 16, 2015

What I found about this, was that in 1988 a french immunologist determined water remembered an antigen, which then was successfully used to treat something. His paper was actually published in Nature magazine, yet Nature assembled a team to replicate the experiment, but failed. I was wondering if this same concept was what was behind the gigantic failure that was that ion aquadizer thing that was sold years ago for aquariums. It was a little blue tube with two hose inlets/outlets that was supposed to revolutionize aquarium keeping, but in the end did nothing.

redfishbluefish · Jun 16, 2015

You naysayers will be in trouble when the water evolves:

reeffirstaid · Jun 16, 2015

This is what I am talking about.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 16, 2015

reeffirstaid said:
Nope not at all. Was simply interested if any real scientific evidence existed in favor of structured water.

Water does have a clear structure of hydrogen bonded networks.

Hydrogen bonds are bonds between the hydrogen atom of one water molecule and the oxygen atom of a second one. They can form rings and all sorts of extended structures. These bonds are incredibly important, making water denser than it otherwise would be by pulling water molecules together. They are also why ice floats.

BUT, such hydrogen bonds only last for about 0.00000000001 seconds before breaking and then reforming to the same or a different water molecule.

Consequently, any memory in pure water can only last for a very tiny fraction of a second.

reeffirstaid · Jun 16, 2015

so water does record a disturbance by changing structure, but only for a fraction of a second? not throughout a network of communication, as water memory proponents suggest?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 16, 2015

reeffirstaid said:
This is what I am talking about.

Yes, I remember that product. To bad some people wasted their money on it.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 16, 2015

reeffirstaid said:
so water does record a disturbance by changing structure, but only for a fraction of a second? not throughout a network of communication, as water memory proponents suggest?

Correct. It has a very short memory of a few picoseconds.

reeffirstaid · Jun 16, 2015

this would explain why the water that was flash frozen, when music was playing changed structure. the video made it seem like that changes in water carried on and was passed around, much like data on a computer network.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 16, 2015

redfishbluefish said:
You naysayers will be in trouble when the water evolves:

I want one of those for my tank!

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 16, 2015

reeffirstaid said:
this would explain why the water that was flash frozen, when music was playing changed structure. the video made it seem like that changes in water carried on and was passed around, much like data on a computer network.

I don't know if there's any real basis for those claims. Flash freezing takes way longer than the lifetime of hydrogen bonds, and the freezing itself adds a lot of hydrogen bonds.

Shep · Jun 16, 2015

Yea sorry but there is nothing to this theory, its made up nonsense.

reeffirstaid · Jun 16, 2015

Perhaps it's just all B.S. intended to sell an overpriced device. Too bad, it seems like a really cool concept. It's interesting though that the original experiment that suggested water memory in 1988, could not be replicated.

Shep · Jun 16, 2015

reeffirstaid said:
Perhaps it's just all B.S. intended to sell an overpriced device. Too bad, it seems like a really cool concept. It's interesting though that the original experiment that suggested water memory in 1988, could not be replicated.

Not really interesting, it could not be replicated because it was either made up or carried out with flawed designs.

reeffirstaid · Jun 16, 2015

It's interesting that the original paper was published in Nature to begin with, although it was published with a sort of believe at your own risk statement by the editorial review board at the magazine.

redfishbluefish · Jun 16, 2015

First off, thank you @reeffirstaid for this post. I have an active, imaginative mind, and this fodder has given me great amusement for the past hour or so. Here's but two alternate conclusions from the data presented:

Flash Freeze and Music: They must be playing the classics in Heaven considering all the frozen water samples looked exactly like snowflakes, and we know snowflakes fall from the heavens. And as far as heavy metal, that didn't look like a snow flake, that must be being played in that other place where they have fire and brimstone.

Dog Test: When dogs first greet each other they smell each other's you-know-what. So when you give a choice of two waters to a dog and he chooses one, what does that tell you about that water. I'll take the other please.

I've got to get back to work, but this will definitely keep me amused for the rest of the day....just need to wipe the smile off my face....people might think I like what I'm doing.

Thanks again @reeffirstaid

Up2no6ood · Jun 16, 2015

Lol 10 seconds into the video - water is the only element that can exist on the planet in the 3 states should have been a dead giveaway that this was complete hogwash.
Oh and mercury has a higher surface tension than water....I'm not a scientist and know this what does that tell you about the people who made the video.