When to add SPS?

Eye H8 Empty V · Feb 4, 2023

So my tank first saw water 116 days ago. When is a good time to start adding SPS corals? It's a 90gal with a 39gal sump. I've got a bunch of LPSs and tried a few inexpensive sticks but the sticks did not last. They were also covered in brown algae due to the "ulgy" phase. I'm going crazy with turbo snails to clean everything up. My nitrates have been 0 as my 10" fleece roller and skimmer are way over sized. I also removed the chaeto. Unfortunately I cannot turn the skimmer off as I'm using a recirculating lid with a CO2 scrubber to maintain PH. I'm going to start dosing nitrates tomorrow until I can increase the bioload. I've only got 2 fish inhabitants (blue hippo and tomini tangs) as I'm going through 60day QT's. 2 more will be joining on March 10th (Female Japanese Swallowtail Angel and Desjardini Sailfin Tank) and pre-QT'd Lawnmower and Midas Blennies in 2 weeks.

Thanks!

Sisterlimonpot · Feb 4, 2023

Time wise, I'd say you're ready, but 0 nutrients is a big red flag. I would suggest getting your N and P to a desired level and keep it maintained before you start trying your hand at sps again.

Eye H8 Empty V · Feb 4, 2023

Ohh yeah, my PAR is 250-300 at the peaks of my aquascape. It's a 4' tank with 4 T5's and 4 Kessil A360X's. I removed the screws in the A360X brackets and positioned them over the pinnacles/peaks in the aquascape. It's not symmetrical like most people's setups but I why does it have to be? I've also got 1 narrow beam reflector that will focus it to 400/450 PAR. I'm running the A360X's at 100% intensity, 100% color, 100% violet, 0% red and 0% green.

Billy

Eye H8 Empty V · Feb 4, 2023

Sisterlimonpot said:
Time wise, I'd say you're ready, but 0 nutrients is a big red flag. I would suggest getting your N and P to a desired level and keep it maintained before you start trying your hand at sps again.

This what it was at the last time I tested

Date

Days Apart

PH

Alkalinity

Dosed

PH AD

ALK AD

Nitrates HR

Nitrites

Phosphate ULR

Calcium

Dosed

Magnesium

Dosed

Iodine

Dosed

Potassium

Dosed

Iron

Dosed

Ammonia

01/16/23

N/A

X

9

X

01/17/23

-1

X

8.2

2.4FL OZ

X

9

X

01/19/23

-2

8.14

7.9

3.4

X

9

X

01/20/23

-1

8.25

8.7

0.9 FL OZ

X

01/21/23

-1

8.15

8.7

0.9 FL OZ

8.315

9

4.1

0

0.09

210

X

1270

X

0.06

X

0.6

X

<0.05

X

0.01

01/23/23

-2

8.21

8

3.1 FL OZ

8.365

9.1

X

Lavey29 · Feb 4, 2023

Tanks sounds like it's still unstable which is why the initial SPS frags failed. Wait till you see abundant coralline growth and have proper nutrients levels stable.

Garf · Feb 4, 2023

Eye H8 Empty V said:
So my tank first saw water 116 days ago. When is a good time to start adding SPS corals? It's a 90gal with a 39gal sump. I've got a bunch of LPSs and tried a few inexpensive sticks but the sticks did not last. They were also covered in brown algae due to the "ulgy" phase. I'm going crazy with turbo snails to clean everything up. My nitrates have been 0 as my 10" fleece roller and skimmer are way over sized. I also removed the chaeto. Unfortunately I cannot turn the skimmer off as I'm using a recirculating lid with a CO2 scrubber to maintain PH. I'm going to start dosing nitrates tomorrow until I can increase the bioload. I've only got 2 fish inhabitants (blue hippo and tomini tangs) as I'm going through 60day QT's. 2 more will be joining on March 10th (Female Japanese Swallowtail Angel and Desjardini Sailfin Tank) and pre-QT'd Lawnmower and Midas Blennies in 2 weeks.

Thanks!

We need to see this tank. A few sacrificial frags upfront add the all needed bacterial, and some unwanted ones.

Eye H8 Empty V · Feb 4, 2023

Garf said:
We need to see this tank. A few sacrificial frags upfront add the all needed bacterial, and some unwanted ones.

I’ll take a video of it tomorrow. I’ve been dosing MicroBacter 7, MicroBacter Clean since the tank’s startup. I recently started slowly adding Dr Tim’s Waste Away and Mexican Turbo snails in an attempt to combat of all the ugly phase algae.

TangerineSpeedo · Feb 5, 2023

What's up with your calcium? Is it that low? Also what test kits are you using and your testing procedures? Your tank should not be jumping around that much in a day or two time span.

branbray07 · Feb 5, 2023

Take it from someone whos been there very very recent, you tank is not ready. Stabilize it first, add more fish, try some cheapo sticks and see if they survive.

Screwgunner · Feb 5, 2023

It all depends! If you start with live rock.not so long. Dry rock about a year. For sps. With stable peramiters.

billyocean · Feb 5, 2023

Screwgunner said:
It all depends! If you start with live rock.not so long. Dry rock about a year. For sps. With stable peramiters.

And if it's dry rock, dosing phosphates may get absorbed by the rock for a while. Don't slack on testing for a while until it levels out with dosing.

Eye H8 Empty V · Feb 16, 2023

So I've been performing some consistent testing. Below are my results. One of these days I'll start using the graphing features in Excel! I've been feeding heavily in order to get nitrates up. Well unfortunately it's caused a major spike in my nitrites. I'm guessing the bacteria population cannot meet the demand so I'm dialing back on food for the fish and target feeding the corals. I'm also running a few bags of copper in the sump as the water was turning yellow. I'm pulling it out tomorrow. Nitrates went to a perfect level when I ran our of filter fleece but I had a lot more particulate in the water column. AD means "After Dosing." My Alkalinity seems to remain stable between 8.8 and 9.2 in the recent week without dosing anything specifically for Alk. So in order to bring PH up I'm using something called Balance that doesn't affect Alk. But it only boosts it for a short while. After getting my calcium up it seems to deplete slowly. I'm not testing Magnesium because I believe my salt mix is handling that just fine. I'm also not testing trace colors (less Iron) because they're a pain in the butt. Iron is cake with the new Hanna Checker. I have notice a huge difference in the greens specifically in the stalk of my duncan coral. It's gone from white to bright green in a matter of days. Too bad I ran out of the iron supplement. More is on the way though. Now that the water is cleared up I'll take a video tomorrow and post. I need to do a big water change tomorrow to get my nitrites zeroed.

I've got to say, this part has gotten me really excited. Everything seemed to barely be surviving or died. Now that I'm starting to understand how all these levels play a part, things are growing!!! Specifically my Zoe's. Back in the day Zoes were pretty boring. I always looked at them as somewhat of a lame coral. Mushrooms were the same, even the ricordias. There is so much more available now it's incredible. I'm also finding that each LFS has specific resources. One shop has mind blowing zoe rocks for ultra cheap and super healthy and they're full rocks! Not just a few polyps. Another shop has really cheap and beautiful gonis, duncans, and frogspawns. It's also nice getting to know the shop owners and seeing the different approaches, along with the few local reefers I've met. I dig this community!

Date

Days Apart

Time

PH

Alkalinity

Dosed

PH AD

ALK AD

Nitrates HR

Dosed

Nitrates AD

Nitrites

Phosphate ULR

Calcium

Dosed

Magnesium

Dosed

Iodine

Dosed

Potassium

Dosed

Iron

Dosed

01/16/23

N/A

X

9

X

01/17/23

-1

X

8.2

2.4FL OZ

X

9

X

01/19/23

-2

X

8.14

7.9

3.4

X

9

X

01/20/23

-1

X

8.25

8.7

0.9 FL OZ

X

01/21/23

-1

X

8.15

8.7

0.9 FL OZ

8.315

9

4.1

X

0

0.09

210

X

1270

X

0.06

X

0.6

X

<0.05

X

01/23/23

-2

X

8.21

8

3.1 FL OZ

8.365

9.1

X

02/05/23

-13

11:18PM

8.12

8.3

2.1 FL OZ

8.17

8.9

9.5

4.0 FL OZ

19.5

0

0.16

339

28 FL OZ

1425

X

02/06/23

-1

10:24PM

7.95

9

0

7.95

9

16.9

0

X

0

0.07

417

10.2 FL OZ

X

02/07/23

-1

10:04PM

7.87

10

0

X

2

5.0 FL OZ

24

0.125

0.04

464

X

02/10/23

-3

11:08PM

8.32

8.8

X

20.5

X

43ppb

0.24

415

11.1 FL OZ

X

0

1.5 FL OZ

02/12/23

-2

10:00PM

8.09

8.6

1.2 FL OZ

X

14.5

X

58

0.12

467

X

0.09

1.5 FL OZ

02/14/23

-2

10:32PM

8.04

8.9

X

15.1

X

32

0.1

465

X

0.2

X

02/15/23

-1

10:11PM

7.97

9.2

X

16.3

X

34

0.07

443

X

0.08

X

p1u5h13r4m24 · Feb 16, 2023

Eye H8 Empty V said:
So my tank first saw water 116 days ago. When is a good time to start adding SPS corals? It's a 90gal with a 39gal sump. I've got a bunch of LPSs and tried a few inexpensive sticks but the sticks did not last. They were also covered in brown algae due to the "ulgy" phase. I'm going crazy with turbo snails to clean everything up. My nitrates have been 0 as my 10" fleece roller and skimmer are way over sized. I also removed the chaeto. Unfortunately I cannot turn the skimmer off as I'm using a recirculating lid with a CO2 scrubber to maintain PH. I'm going to start dosing nitrates tomorrow until I can increase the bioload. I've only got 2 fish inhabitants (blue hippo and tomini tangs) as I'm going through 60day QT's. 2 more will be joining on March 10th (Female Japanese Swallowtail Angel and Desjardini Sailfin Tank) and pre-QT'd Lawnmower and Midas Blennies in 2 weeks.

Thanks!

I know you probably spent a lot of money of your fleece roller, but if you’re adding nitrate maybe just take the roller out. I had a fleece roller and had the same problem. It will be hard to stabilize your reef if you’re constantly needing to dose nitrate.

p1u5h13r4m24 · Feb 16, 2023

Eye H8 Empty V said:
I’ll take a video of it tomorrow. I’ve been dosing MicroBacter 7, MicroBacter Clean since the tank’s startup. I recently started slowly adding Dr Tim’s Waste Away and Mexican Turbo snails in an attempt to combat of all the ugly phase algae.

Ur having trouble keeping nitrates up because the job of mb7 and most of those additives are basically to add bacteria that will lower ur nutrients. I would take out the fleece roller and stop dosing all those things and ur nutrients will rise on their own. You probably have cyano because your tank has been unstable from all these swings. The swings are not allowing your biom to naturally stabilize to out compete algae’s. Handpick gha and let the turbo snails take care of the rest. Perform routine water change to keep DOC down.

gbroadbridge · Feb 16, 2023

Eye H8 Empty V said:
So I've been performing some consistent testing. Below are my results. One of these days I'll start using the graphing features in Excel! I've been feeding heavily in order to get nitrates up. Well unfortunately it's caused a major spike in my nitrites. I'm guessing the bacteria population cannot meet the demand so I'm dialing back on food for the fish and target feeding the corals. I'm also running a few bags of copper in the sump as the water was turning yellow. I'm pulling it out tomorrow. Nitrates went to a perfect level when I ran our of filter fleece but I had a lot more particulate in the water column. AD means "After Dosing." My Alkalinity seems to remain stable between 8.8 and 9.2 in the recent week without dosing anything specifically for Alk. So in order to bring PH up I'm using something called Balance that doesn't affect Alk. But it only boosts it for a short while. After getting my calcium up it seems to deplete slowly. I'm not testing Magnesium because I believe my salt mix is handling that just fine. I'm also not testing trace colors (less Iron) because they're a pain in the butt. Iron is cake with the new Hanna Checker. I have notice a huge difference in the greens specifically in the stalk of my duncan coral. It's gone from white to bright green in a matter of days. Too bad I ran out of the iron supplement. More is on the way though. Now that the water is cleared up I'll take a video tomorrow and post. I need to do a big water change tomorrow to get my nitrites zeroed.

I've got to say, this part has gotten me really excited. Everything seemed to barely be surviving or died. Now that I'm starting to understand how all these levels play a part, things are growing!!! Specifically my Zoe's. Back in the day Zoes were pretty boring. I always looked at them as somewhat of a lame coral. Mushrooms were the same, even the ricordias. There is so much more available now it's incredible. I'm also finding that each LFS has specific resources. One shop has mind blowing zoe rocks for ultra cheap and super healthy and they're full rocks! Not just a few polyps. Another shop has really cheap and beautiful gonis, duncans, and frogspawns. It's also nice getting to know the shop owners and seeing the different approaches, along with the few local reefers I've met. I dig this community!

Date Days Apart Time PH Alkalinity Dosed PH AD ALK AD Nitrates HR Dosed Nitrates AD Nitrites Phosphate ULR Calcium Dosed Magnesium Dosed Iodine Dosed Potassium Dosed Iron Dosed
01/16/23
N/A X X 9 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X
01/17/23
-1 X X 8.2 2.4FL OZ X 9 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X
01/19/23
-2 X 8.14 7.9 3.4 X 9 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X
01/20/23
-1 X 8.25 8.7 0.9 FL OZ X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X
01/21/23
-1 X 8.15 8.7 0.9 FL OZ 8.315 9 4.1 X X 0 0.09 210 X 1270 X 0.06 X 0.6 X <0.05 X
01/23/23
-2 X 8.21 8 3.1 FL OZ 8.365 9.1 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X
02/05/23
-13 11:18PM 8.12 8.3 2.1 FL OZ 8.17 8.9 9.5 4.0 FL OZ 19.5 0 0.16 339 28 FL OZ 1425 X X X X X X X
02/06/23
-1 10:24PM 7.95 9 0 7.95 9 16.9 0 X 0 0.07 417 10.2 FL OZ X X X X X X X X
02/07/23
-1 10:04PM 7.87 10 0 X X 2 5.0 FL OZ 24 0.125 0.04 464 X X X X X X X X X
02/10/23
-3 11:08PM 8.32 8.8 X X X 20.5 X X 43ppb 0.24 415 11.1 FL OZ X X X X X X 0 1.5 FL OZ
02/12/23
-2 10:00PM 8.09 8.6 1.2 FL OZ X X 14.5 X X 58 0.12 467 X X X X X X X 0.09 1.5 FL OZ
02/14/23
-2 10:32PM 8.04 8.9 X X X 15.1 X X 32 0.1 465 X X X X X X X 0.2 X
02/15/23
-1 10:11PM 7.97 9.2 X X X 16.3 X X 34 0.07 443 X X X X X X X 0.08 X

If you're taking measurements at the same time each day, they're bouncing around too much.

The tank needs to stabilise a good while longer.

SPR1968 · Feb 16, 2023

I wouldn’t test every day unless you have a reason, test error margins/human error will always cause changes to the results as the kits are hobby grade

You really don’t need all the additives, your pH is fine, just test once a week and adjust foundation elements as needed. If you need to get nutrients up, just add more fish and feed them. That’s the natural way.

You need to keep an eye on magnesium as well (and also calcium), its vital for coral health, and if it gets depleted the corals will tell you.

Just think of yourself as a ‘water keeper’ that’s really all your doing.

The Opinionated Reefer · Feb 16, 2023

There is no correct time other than when you have a stable tank and are seeing coralline algae. Just start adding some easy sps like birds nest and plating montipora. If they thrive then start adding more difficult types.

alain Bouchard · Feb 16, 2023

stability is key. you can have awesome sps tank with ultra low nutrient. if you think you ready, try with the cheapest easiest sps. You can consider you are able to keep them when you can see growth, not just keeping them from dying. start with some monti cap, they are among the easiest to keep and have quick growth

Troylee · Feb 16, 2023

Eye H8 Empty V said:
So I've been performing some consistent testing. Below are my results. One of these days I'll start using the graphing features in Excel! I've been feeding heavily in order to get nitrates up. Well unfortunately it's caused a major spike in my nitrites. I'm guessing the bacteria population cannot meet the demand so I'm dialing back on food for the fish and target feeding the corals. I'm also running a few bags of copper in the sump as the water was turning yellow. I'm pulling it out tomorrow. Nitrates went to a perfect level when I ran our of filter fleece but I had a lot more particulate in the water column. AD means "After Dosing." My Alkalinity seems to remain stable between 8.8 and 9.2 in the recent week without dosing anything specifically for Alk. So in order to bring PH up I'm using something called Balance that doesn't affect Alk. But it only boosts it for a short while. After getting my calcium up it seems to deplete slowly. I'm not testing Magnesium because I believe my salt mix is handling that just fine. I'm also not testing trace colors (less Iron) because they're a pain in the butt. Iron is cake with the new Hanna Checker. I have notice a huge difference in the greens specifically in the stalk of my duncan coral. It's gone from white to bright green in a matter of days. Too bad I ran out of the iron supplement. More is on the way though. Now that the water is cleared up I'll take a video tomorrow and post. I need to do a big water change tomorrow to get my nitrites zeroed.

I've got to say, this part has gotten me really excited. Everything seemed to barely be surviving or died. Now that I'm starting to understand how all these levels play a part, things are growing!!! Specifically my Zoe's. Back in the day Zoes were pretty boring. I always looked at them as somewhat of a lame coral. Mushrooms were the same, even the ricordias. There is so much more available now it's incredible. I'm also finding that each LFS has specific resources. One shop has mind blowing zoe rocks for ultra cheap and super healthy and they're full rocks! Not just a few polyps. Another shop has really cheap and beautiful gonis, duncans, and frogspawns. It's also nice getting to know the shop owners and seeing the different approaches, along with the few local reefers I've met. I dig this community!

Date Days Apart Time PH Alkalinity Dosed PH AD ALK AD Nitrates HR Dosed Nitrates AD Nitrites Phosphate ULR Calcium Dosed Magnesium Dosed Iodine Dosed Potassium Dosed Iron Dosed
01/16/23
N/A X X 9 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X
01/17/23
-1 X X 8.2 2.4FL OZ X 9 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X
01/19/23
-2 X 8.14 7.9 3.4 X 9 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X
01/20/23
-1 X 8.25 8.7 0.9 FL OZ X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X
01/21/23
-1 X 8.15 8.7 0.9 FL OZ 8.315 9 4.1 X X 0 0.09 210 X 1270 X 0.06 X 0.6 X <0.05 X
01/23/23
-2 X 8.21 8 3.1 FL OZ 8.365 9.1 X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X
02/05/23
-13 11:18PM 8.12 8.3 2.1 FL OZ 8.17 8.9 9.5 4.0 FL OZ 19.5 0 0.16 339 28 FL OZ 1425 X X X X X X X
02/06/23
-1 10:24PM 7.95 9 0 7.95 9 16.9 0 X 0 0.07 417 10.2 FL OZ X X X X X X X X
02/07/23
-1 10:04PM 7.87 10 0 X X 2 5.0 FL OZ 24 0.125 0.04 464 X X X X X X X X X
02/10/23
-3 11:08PM 8.32 8.8 X X X 20.5 X X 43ppb 0.24 415 11.1 FL OZ X X X X X X 0 1.5 FL OZ
02/12/23
-2 10:00PM 8.09 8.6 1.2 FL OZ X X 14.5 X X 58 0.12 467 X X X X X X X 0.09 1.5 FL OZ
02/14/23
-2 10:32PM 8.04 8.9 X X X 15.1 X X 32 0.1 465 X X X X X X X 0.2 X
02/15/23
-1 10:11PM 7.97 9.2 X X X 16.3 X X 34 0.07 443 X X X X X X X 0.08 X

A few bags of copper? I hope you mean carbon! You’ll be waiting months to add corals if you added any copper to that tank..

Dburr1014 · Feb 16, 2023

Yes, stability is the key.
You may or may not see coralline at that time. Some tanks just don't have coralline for a while.
Are you doing water changes? I may have missed it if you already answered. Water changes have all the trace elements in it so you wouldn't need to dose that stuff like iron, potassium, ect.
Don't worry about nitrites, I don't test for that at all. Your tank is already cycled.

Nitrate and phosphates, dose as you need to to keep them at your target range.
I dose po4 maybe once or twice a month but my no3 is on a doser 24/7 @35ml daily just to keep it at 5.0ish. EVERY TANK IS DIFFERENT. Anyone that tells you otherwise is wrong. Listen to your tank and run the equipment that makes you comfortable.

Get alk, cal, and mag into your target range and keep it there and stable.

Once you feel like the stability is there and everything is not bouncing around your ready.
It may take a few more months or a year, listen to what your tank is telling you.

Happy Reefing.