zoanthid species?

[Briney Dave]

I have done a bit of reading but not picked up how many different species of zoanthids are identified verses color varieties.
I have some high school students who want to do some research projects using zoanthids but we are not clear about how to tell species from variety

thanks for any help
David Bowers Briney Dave

 

[bryan]

This link should send you and the students off in the right direction, it's very good info.

And also, WELCOME to Club-Zoa!!!

http://www.reefs.org/library/aquarium_net/0198/0198_1.html

 

[twon8]

as the article says, the current state of zoanthid taxonomy is chaos

 

[gflat65]

Chaos indeed. I think I rememebr hearing that there are really only about 25-30 species of Zoanthus known right now, but there really hasn't been much research...

 

[Zeppelin]

Welcome to CLub Zoa Dave.

 

[Briney Dave]

Zepp. I met you at the Columbus swap last year. Your frags you sold me are doing great! Excellent quality and fair prices.

I will read through that link and come back to ask more questions. I was already thinking that there was certainly room to add good research to help with the understanding of these cool little guys.

we have raised a few common varieties with great succes, but we want to know as much as possible before we begin our projects

Thanks for the welcoming and thanks to everyone who has responded or at least read my thread

Briney

 

[TyreeUM]

what is your research going to involve?

 

[Briney Dave]

here is the very short version of what we (my high school students) are going to be working on starting in April.

there seems to be two pressing questions that are not well addressed in a scientific manor. (lots of good observational data,but often we see an apple/orange thing between keepers)

We would like to first reach an optimum lum and light temp. for as many of the common varieties as possible.
I have read plenty that would say something along the lines of "zoas love low light followed up by mine grow best under high M/H
often we are not talking about the same variety

after an optimum lighting for each variety is determined we want to address feeding issues. side by side in seperate but as close to equal tanks we want to dose different foods verses no food.
if there are positive results we want to determine the level that produces the best results

we are hoping for donations from around the whole country to avoid the possiblitiy of a localized varient behaving differently than the group as a whole. It could end up that every area's variety responds differently which would also be interesting news

there is a bunch more to it than this but time and typing LOL

if you think you would be able to help me with some very small zoa frags please let me know to work out the details
questions? please feel free to ask

Briney

 

[Briney Dave]

None of our first round of work will be definitive just a good jumping off point.

We hope to pay back all of those who were generous enough to donate frags to us at the start with other varieties sent back in return

of course we will also be sharing everything that we have learned as well which will help those (especially beginners with zoanthids) to do a better job caring for them and to help other researchers have a good starting point of care while doing other experiments.

plus with all the frags floating around put less pressure on wild caught ones

I would like to see my kids work published either in main stream aquarist magazines or in scientific journals depending on the surprises found and the level my kids are able to work at. You would be surprised at the level some of my kids are willing to work at.

As always please feel free to share ideas, make suggestions and if you can to send us small zoa frags.

My students and I really love these little guys and hope to someday find a way to be able to work with the genetics people of taxonomy to sort out some of the mess of variant verses species.

 

[gflat65]

Is lighting going to be tha main variable? I only ask because water quality determines coloration, too, IMO. If thet are all in the same water, then flow becomes another factor (though maybe not so much in terms of coloration?). There are so many variables... I wish you luck. Let us know when you are ready.

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

You must also look at placement in the tank as well. Great thing your doing with the kids!

 

[Zeppelin]

Zepp. I met you at the Columbus swap last year. Your frags you sold me are doing great! Excellent quality and fair prices.

I will read through that link and come back to ask more questions. I was already thinking that there was certainly room to add good research to help with the understanding of these cool little guys.

we have raised a few common varieties with great succes, but we want to know as much as possible before we begin our projects

Thanks for the welcoming and thanks to everyone who has responded or at least read my thread

Briney

Yep, pretty sure I remember. If youre going to be at the Cleveland Swap March 25th, stop by and re-introduce yourself. I'll be set up there. I'll have the Zeppelin shirt on. I should have some nice sized frags of the more common morphs for around $20. Probably 20-40 polyp frags. Radioactive Dragon Eyes, Green Splatters, Green Bay Packers, etc. I'll have some smaller frags of the more uncommon morphs too.

Glad the stuff you got from me at the Columbus Swap is doing well for ya.

 

[Briney Dave]

Regarding conditions within the tank. I will make every possible effort to maintain constant identical conditions (including swapping water back and forth etc. students will be measuring and monitoring light levels to ensure that the levels are identical. having frags at different lums in the same trial would defeat the purpose.
I was figuring on using a small "power sweep" type of power head to provide moderate sweeping water movement across the frags making effort to create the same volume and duration of water movement. It will not likely be exactly the same but certainly within a few cubic feet per min.

I was also planning for the kids to do a 10% water change each week using R/O water and the same brand of salt each time. No additives or suppliments temp, Calcium, hardness, and pH will be monitored and the trial scrapped if the numbers vary outside the range normal reef keeping
pH 8.2-8.3: 78 F : 1.023-1.026 density 420-450 Ca+ N and P will only be allowed to reach trace/non detectable.
A re-trail would begin after 10 days of stable conditions
photo period will be maintained at 10 hours which seems to be the norm among reef keepers we have survayed

comments?
Briney

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

Hey Dave sounds like fun! At the church I pastor we have a small Christian school and this gives me a good idea, at least to maybe set up a tank for them to maintain. Last week I had some coral delivered there, and they wet nuts with the questions! I had to take the palys out of the cooler many, many times to show them. I got allot of yucks, but even more ohooh's and awes!

What school you with Dave? Our school is Lakeview Christian Academy.

 

[Briney Dave]

I teach at Bellevue High School in Ohio. I have been using Marine science as the interest hook for years.
This spring we are adding a touch tank to the room which should be loads of fun for the kids

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

Thats great Dave! Keep us updated with pics as well.

 

[twon8]

i would advise against the power sweep powerheads, they are junk imo, and break quickly

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

Hey Dave can you give us some specifics on your tank and equipment you will be using?

 

[Briney Dave]

specifics of the set-ups
This is what I have in mind but my kids may re-shape things since it is their projects. However, the final set-up design will need to create replicable conditions and equal conditions between each tank and trial run

So...
I will be using 20 longs for the light level trials. we will be using egg crate sheets to creat shelves that will be moved up and down to create different lum levels for use with power compacts (between trials)
we have had good luck with crates

I think I should use a little bigger tanks (55's) for M/H trials measuring for similar lum levels but with higher watt sources I think I will need the extra depth.
I will link all tanks to a central refu/sump using just cheato as the macro (because we have the most of that source) with a deep sand bed in the refu
the trial tanks will be bare bottom for closer comparision and ease of keeping free of any detritus

We are still trying to work out a deal with a (any) company to provide PC bulbs of different temps for the trials. I think we will start with 10,000, 14,000 and 20,000 K because they seem to be fairly popular among keepers and most all claim good results within this range.

I have not settled on a wattage yet and am open to suggestion. Remember I am looking for too little and too much on the far ends of placement.

I think we will consider too much light to be expressed as bleaching of color or failure to open more than 75% of polyps at any one time

too little with be a bit tougher but am looking for retarding of growth, over extension or failure to open more than 75% of polyps

does that sound reasonable?

ideal will be judged against most productive growth, widest face surface of the polyp and a more arbitrary color saturation level.

As with all real experiments we expect to have to revise procedures and to redefine what consitutes best or worst ect. We hope to be able to take all our cues from nature.

thanks in advance for anyone's input and for taking time to read about us

Briney Dave

 

[Zeppelin]

A hint on the egg crate Dave. Cut twice as many pieces as you need. That way when they start to get hair algae or anything growing on them, you can just switch them out for new white ones, and then you can let the old ones dry and then scrub them with water, and store them for the next change out. Its much easier than finding a place for the zoos while you try and clean each rack.