“Live” bio blocks

[bvanfish]

I want to add some more cultured bio media. And I saw a YouTube of a LFS that has bio blocks cycling because 1 block is equivalent to a ton more live rock because of the surface area. I want to add a block or two to my AIO chamber but I’m not sure if anyone does this.

Does anyone know of anyone in Illinois that would do this ? Or does someone sell something like it? I don’t have room for more rock

 

[blaxsun]

Lots of people do this. Sometimes it's easier to use the smaller spheres, cubes or hexes. You don't need to cycle them if your tank is already running; they'll populate themselves in short order.

 

[bvanfish]

I do have some of the spheres but I didn’t know if getting them from a larger older system would bring in new bacteria cultures !

 

[bushdoc]

By all means move some of your spheares from older system, it will increase biodiversity.
One think to ponder though, some biomedia get clogged with detritus fast, so I would rinse them (in saltwater) first.

 

[brandon429]

if you buy these, you're being tricked by bottle bac sellers. huge waste of cash in reefing, to be told you need more surface area or that these remove nitrate.

if you were using these in a quarantine that is legit low surface area, and if they were fitted into the output of a pipe where water goes through them, then maybe. never in a display/useless/fad

 

[brandon429]

buy one of these blocks and set it into a tote of stilled common water. the brick, laying at the bottom.

get some red food dye and open it

submerge the dye container in the stilled tote of water, about an inch away from the brick, squeeze some red right into the side of the block to see how it motions through the brick, or deflected by the brick (all around it, never through)


does it just flow around, clouding up the water with red> or did it literally pass through the brick to the other side? that's your water contact with ten of these stacked in a sump, actually quite low surface area due to simple deflection.

if the whole bring was fitted into an inlet pipe getting 100% pass through, that'd be real surface area contact


what reef in the world needs extra surface area? that's for ammonia control, no reefs have trouble controlling ammonia.

the live rock in the display, which is not a fad ripoff, also does not pass any dye from one side to the other its just actually contacting wastewater in 2/3rds of the physical structure in a display, it doesn't have to pass through.


these are a gimmick all the way to BRS's bank. pay em if you must.

@BRS I never see ya'll discussing surface area hydrology in a fair way.

 

[brandon429]

the only way to capitalize on this fad more than the current peer-driven rate is to bundle it with MB7 as the seed

implying the free bacteria in the tank won't seed it, or that showing up already seeded by MB7 makes a difference on any pre and post testing, for any param, that could be ran.

team, don't just give the bottle bac sellers endless clicks, hold them to task 1 of every 10 impulses to buy a bacteria product for a reef tank. peers online made this bacteria thing all the rage @BeanAnimal what are finding, like 50 examples a day now across forums?

amazing capitalism though. straight up legit to sell, if the demand is there, and in that BRS is doing a good job, they're filling a demand invented on forums that some other business would just fulfill if they didn't.


reef peers: stop tricking one another pls

 

[bvanfish]

Don’t both aid in good bacteria in your tank? Why use live rock after your cycle then? The good bacteria helps stabilize right? wouldnt both help as a biological filter?

 

[brandon429]

bvan this is a rabbit hole few care to entertain but the breakdown is this:

you don't have a deficit in ammonia control right now. there isn't any test you can run for ammonia control, the sole benefit these provide, in a display reef, that gets better after adding these blocks.

your systemic ability to control ammonia comes from its live rock, if you want more bacteria you add more live rock which actually contacts significant wastewater compared to these low profile jokes that turn into mush 4 months from now (searchable, on threads, why are my bio bricks collapsing)

there isn't a time your reef is going to lack ammonia control

consider the test above that shows water contact isn't even occurring in the right way to make use of extra surface area

these cannot benefit your tank in any way you can measure, any more than setting a red brick of extra contact surface area in a sump would make a measurable benefit. these are literally for-cost reef bricks that do nothing you could ever measure, or benefit from.

the ploy is the play up on the fact we're trained (by bottle bac sellers and peers but not actual tests) to think more bacteria= better in reefing. that's opposite of the truth.

if you are reading ANYTHING regarding reef bacteria that comes from a sales company, doubt it

if you are reading something about reef bacteria that comes from Taricha, or Dan_P, don't doubt it: they aren't fleecing you, they're legit scientists who do cycling tests to find truth/not sales.

 

[slicknick1970]

bvan this is a rabbit hole few care to entertain but the breakdown is this:

you don't have a deficit in ammonia control right now. there isn't any test you can run for ammonia control, the sole benefit these provide, in a display reef, that gets better after adding these blocks.

your systemic ability to control ammonia comes from its live rock, if you want more bacteria you add more live rock which actually contacts significant wastewater compared to these low profile jokes that turn into mush 4 months from now (searchable, on threads, why are my bio bricks collapsing)

there isn't a time your reef is going to lack ammonia control

consider the test above that shows water contact isn't even occurring in the right way to make use of extra surface area

these cannot benefit your tank in any way you can measure, any more than setting a red brick of extra contact surface area in a sump would make a measurable benefit. these are literally for-cost reef bricks that do nothing you could ever measure, or benefit from.

the ploy is the play up on the fact we're trained (by bottle bac sellers and peers but not actual tests) to think more bacteria= better in reefing. that's opposite of the truth.

if you are reading ANYTHING regarding reef bacteria that comes from a sales company, doubt it

if you are reading something about reef bacteria that comes from Taricha, or Dan_P, don't doubt it: they aren't fleecing you, they're legit scientists who do cycling tests to find truth/not sales.

What about Dr tims?

 

[brandon429]

Dr Tims cycling bottle bac works great and has allowed about a million reefs to do successful fish- in cycling without harm. Several types of bottle bac do that, his is one of them

 

[brandon429]

The surface area usefulness of biobricks is debatable in my opinion.

Water isn't channeled through them, water takes path of least resist and flows around them is why they look like a gimmick

Imagine taking granular carbon and just sitting it in a bag in the sump... water flows around vs through

To get gac to polish water we have to channel water through it.

 

[brandon429]

Where I disagree with Dr Tim is that reef tank cycles stall or that nitrite matters at all in display cycling. I only say that due to the sheer size of stalled cycle threads that turn out not stalled when we test digitally vs with api.

The initial use of his bacteria is great: selling three more bottles to the same system to remedy a false stall isn't great.

 

[bvanfish]

Ya I may just use some rubble in the back and call it good instead of more media.

 

[brandon429]

even that is a neutral impact. you dont benefit from having more surface area than your display rocks, or in a different place within the water flow, because no reef display runs low on surface area

 

[dedragon]

I think this could be a good addition in a newer tank if you are using matured live rock/biomedia from an older system, but like brandon said it isnt needed if this is just to add more surface area

 

[pygoplites77]

even that is a neutral impact. you dont benefit from having more surface area than your display rocks, or in a different place within the water flow, because no reef display runs low on surface area

I agree if we are talking about a tank already started with live rock: increasing the surface area that can be colonized would not make sense, because there are no problems with nitrites and ammonia.But if we are talking about an aquarium to be started, it could be really convenient to insert bio blocks instead of live rock... both economically and to have a more streamlined layout in the tank.Do not you think?

 

[brandon429]

Is the example tank you’re referring to going to get rock as well during the cycle or is the setup going to be artificial surface area only

 

[pygoplites77]

Total volume, tank + sump 600 litres, rock surface 50 kg of live rocks.
Now I have to decide whether to put another 25 kg of live rocks in the sump, or the bio balls in a small compartment (one bio ball replaces 1 kg of live rocks as a usable surface for the settlement of bacteria) and use the rest of the space to remain much more comfortable with the technique or use it for something else in the future

 

[brandon429]

Extra surface area in the sump or as biobricks etc follow the stated rules of neutrality

You only need them if the main display didn't have live rocks. 50 kg of live rock handles any bioload the tank will ever see, so the extra isn't needed nor helpful nor harmful.