0 Nitrates 0_0 What do I do?

[Kongar]

Hi all, could use some advice. I have a three month old 20g nano reef. I did a full battery of testing tonight and was quite surprised to test my nitrates at zero. I thought I screwed up, so I tested again. Again - absolutely crystal clear water in the test vial - zero nitrates. I was not expecting this with a three month old tank (my first tank - I’m a noob). I’m concerned because I’ve read this is bad. What should I do?

Red Sea test kits, BRS refractometer, seneye reef monitor.

salinity 35ppm
Ammonia seneye .001, Red Sea 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
pH seneye 7.81 Red Sea 8.1ish
Alk 8.7
Mg 1680
Ca 430
Phos 0.043
Temp 76.8

I have one zoa head that is grumpy today and closed up. This led me to test everything to make sure things are good. I’ve seen an increase in diatoms/brown film algae the past few weeks - nothing out of control, but an increase. I’ve also noticed my skimmer has kind of stopped pulling junk out of the tank this past week. Water is crystal clear.

I stopped testing nitrates daily around month 2, went to weekly, and kind of stopped testing for it. Last test two weeks ago showed less than 5, and has been on a steady decline since my cycle (was way over 50 then). Assumed this was normal due to weekly 4 gal water changes. Wasn’t expecting it to go to zero though. Dunno what other info I can give, but I’ve tested almost daily since the beginning, and kept a log. I can answer specifics.

What if anything should I do now?
Thanks!
Kongar

 

[redfishbluefish]

First off, if your nitrates are truly zero, I curse you....and if you wish, I'll be more than happy to ship you some of my tank water to boost your nitrates.

Bottom line, I don't believe your numbers. You mentioned Red Sea and Seneye....how are you actually measuring for nitrates? I'd verify those numbers by either having your LFS test your water or a friend using their kits.

Denitrification (that is, going from nitrate to gaseous nitrogen) does not happen to any great extent in most tanks ( unless anaerobic conditions are present for the specific bacteria to do their thing.) A tank at 50 ppm nitrates with 20% water changes isn't going to get nitrates to zero. Again, test you test kits to make sure you're seeing real numbers.

 

[proxy001]

I dont know if I missed that part but do you have any fish in there?
Like @redfishbluefish offered , Im happy to send you a few gallons of 50 ppm water, they also have phosphate as a bonus

 

[Bdroid]

If you truly have 0 nitrate then you can either dose for it using something like bionics nitrate or basically feed a little more for your fish which should help increase your nitrate. Do you have a lot of algae? If so, that could be a factor of the low nutrient

 

[MJ in Boise]

Brightwell neo nitro if you decide to dose nitrate. Tank is very young though. I'd personally leave it alone for awhile especially since you are starting to see diatoms. I dose nitrate and phosphate daily with brightwell and have had good results.

 

[Lovefish77]

I have been in the same boat zero nitrates and very low phosphates like 0.02. I tried raising nitrates by tree stump remover according to Randy's directions on other forum and my sps crashed. I lost my sps (not even acros) when my nitrates reached 3 ppm. Dont think a shock was from nitrates but from impurities in that product. So be very careful what you do

 

[Kongar]

So to answer a couple of questions at once.

yes there’s three fish in there, two baby clowns about an inch each, and a sixline about 1.5-2 in. I feed them once a day, about 20 of the tiny pellets, sometimes 1/12 of a Mysis shrimp cube. Basically I feed them all they can eat within three minutes and then they are done. They generally gorge themselves for about two minutes and then stop eating. My wrasses belly gets a little bulge when he eats. I thought I was actually over feeding them a bit based on how fast they eat. Fish are healthy. 5 trochus snails, 3 cerith snails, and 10 coral frags. That’s the full stocking list.

I have no hair algae, (I’ve never had any) a few bits of bubble algae (like three bubbles that keep growing back), and one little string of some kind of macro algae that hitchhiked on a coral frag. I pluck it each week and doesn’t get longer than 1/2 in. All my rocks (dry rock) have a green algae on the surfaces that get light, but it’s like part of the rock. It doesn’t scrub off with a toothbrush (I’ve tried) The rest of the rock turned brown along the way - also doesn’t scrub off.

what I do have algae wise is film algae. Brown. Grows daily on the glass. Like if I don’t scrape it, it makes viewing difficult within one day. My 5 trochus snails love it. But I have to scrape it clean to keep up with it.

On my sand, when I wake up in the morning - my sand is pretty white. Within one hour of my lights coming on, you can see brown “something” growing everywhere. By the middle of the light cycle (10 hours), the sand is solid brown. It can be blown away with a baster. After the lights go down, that brown stuff goes away and the sand is white again in the morning. I’m thinking diatoms or some brown algae - not dinos - it’s not slimy or like a mat. More like a heavy dusting. I’ve had this stuff in the tank since about week 4, and it hasn’t gone away yet. (Getting worse not better)

Interestingly, I have very little coraline algae. A little speck on two different frag plugs, and some on my snail shells. It’s not spreading. Some pink, some purple. Can’t explain why it’s doing what it is.

I also don’t have a refugium, so I’m wondering what’s consuming the nitrates. The daily brown bloom?

my test kit has been pretty dang reliable so far. The numbers have never been out of whack. Tested at zero at the start of the cycle, climbed past 50, came down with big water changes, used to go up weekly to 10-15ish, water changes brought it back down to 8-10. Been slowly decreasing over time. A couple of times I’ve tested before and after water changes and seen the nitrates number drop accordingly. A 4 gal water change drops the nitrates 25% (there’s about 16 gallons in the tank). So confirmation my test kit was working, at least proportionally.

I guess I’ll either buy another test kit or bring a sample to my lfs for testing and check my kit. If it is truly zero, I guess I’m afraid of dinos developing, or my corals dying. But I’m also having a hard time believing what I’m seeing, and not too keen to start dosing in such a new tank.

 

[vsolovyev]

If you actually have 0 nitrates, it can easily be fixed with a larger live stock or heavier/more feedings, that’s how I fixed my low nitrate issue also seems easier to me than having to dose another product.

 

[Kongar]

Bdroid and vsolovyev, I like that advice of feeding more. I was thinking that would be my next move, but wasn’t sure. I think I’ll verify the reading with another kit/lfs, and if zero, I’ll just start feeding my fish twice a day. I’m sure they’ll love that. If I went by their actions when I’m around the tank - they’d have me believe they are literally starving 24/7. And they aren’t because they are growing and have fat bellies

my hesitation is that my phosphates have been climbing. I’ve only had that test kit for about three weeks, but each week it goes up a little bit higher. Can’t explain that either.

 

[vsolovyev]

If you say you are feeding your fish enough, maybe you can consider feeding your corals a few times a week, like reef roids or somthing, that would probably benefit your corals and your zero nitrate issue at the same time.

 

[Kongar]

If you say you are feeding your fish enough, maybe you can consider feeding your corals a few times a week, like reef roids or somthing, that would probably benefit your corals and your zero nitrate issue at the same time.

Oh man how could I have forgotten about this. Even weirder - I spot feed my corals weekly with reef roids. They gobble it up. I fed them YESTERDAY, and was expecting to see a big spike today from it. I really feel like I’m feeding my tank plenty, maybe over feeding. See why I’m so confused?

 

[Difrano]

So to answer a couple of questions at once.

yes there’s three fish in there, two baby clowns about an inch each, and a sixline about 1.5-2 in. I feed them once a day, about 20 of the tiny pellets, sometimes 1/12 of a Mysis shrimp cube. Basically I feed them all they can eat within three minutes and then they are done. They generally gorge themselves for about two minutes and then stop eating. My wrasses belly gets a little bulge when he eats. I thought I was actually over feeding them a bit based on how fast they eat. Fish are healthy. 5 trochus snails, 3 cerith snails, and 10 coral frags. That’s the full stocking list.

I have no hair algae, (I’ve never had any) a few bits of bubble algae (like three bubbles that keep growing back), and one little string of some kind of macro algae that hitchhiked on a coral frag. I pluck it each week and doesn’t get longer than 1/2 in. All my rocks (dry rock) have a green algae on the surfaces that get light, but it’s like part of the rock. It doesn’t scrub off with a toothbrush (I’ve tried) The rest of the rock turned brown along the way - also doesn’t scrub off.

what I do have algae wise is film algae. Brown. Grows daily on the glass. Like if I don’t scrape it, it makes viewing difficult within one day. My 5 trochus snails love it. But I have to scrape it clean to keep up with it.

On my sand, when I wake up in the morning - my sand is pretty white. Within one hour of my lights coming on, you can see brown “something” growing everywhere. By the middle of the light cycle (10 hours), the sand is solid brown. It can be blown away with a baster. After the lights go down, that brown stuff goes away and the sand is white again in the morning. I’m thinking diatoms or some brown algae - not dinos - it’s not slimy or like a mat. More like a heavy dusting. I’ve had this stuff in the tank since about week 4, and it hasn’t gone away yet. (Getting worse not better)

Interestingly, I have very little coraline algae. A little speck on two different frag plugs, and some on my snail shells. It’s not spreading. Some pink, some purple. Can’t explain why it’s doing what it is.

I also don’t have a refugium, so I’m wondering what’s consuming the nitrates. The daily brown bloom?

my test kit has been pretty dang reliable so far. The numbers have never been out of whack. Tested at zero at the start of the cycle, climbed past 50, came down with big water changes, used to go up weekly to 10-15ish, water changes brought it back down to 8-10. Been slowly decreasing over time. A couple of times I’ve tested before and after water changes and seen the nitrates number drop accordingly. A 4 gal water change drops the nitrates 25% (there’s about 16 gallons in the tank). So confirmation my test kit was working, at least proportionally.

I guess I’ll either buy another test kit or bring a sample to my lfs for testing and check my kit. If it is truly zero, I guess I’m afraid of dinos developing, or my corals dying. But I’m also having a hard time believing what I’m seeing, and not too keen to start dosing in such a new tank.

Based on your description you might be right with nitrates at 0, because you don't have diatoms, you might have Dinos, they usually appear when nutrients botton. Diatoms don't go away at night and come back during the day, they stay all day until one day they are no more. Check fast because the Dinos are terrible pest and can cause lots of troubles

 

[Idoc]

Brown patches coming in light and fading in dark sound terribly like dinos. You will only be able to definitely confirm with a microscope pic.

Early in my tank, my nitrates and phosphates bottomed out... and dinos took over. I've had them off and on for a couple years now!

I dosed Sodium Nitrate made by Loudwolf... find on Etsy. Much cheaper than the aquarium company stuff. I still occasionally dose it off my nitrates start to drop.

 

[Kongar]

Based on your description you might be right with nitrates at 0, because you don't have diatoms, you might have Dinos, they usually appear when nutrients botton. Diatoms don't go away at night and come back during the day, they stay all day until one day they are no more. Check fast because the Dinos are terrible pest and can cause lots of troubles

Oh boy did you just scare me. 0_0
*heads off to figure out how to id my brown stuff*
1) my sand bed is 100% covered with this stuff
2) it definitely goes away each night

 

[scardall]

I have been in the same boat zero nitrates and very low phosphates like 0.02. I tried raising nitrates by tree stump remover according to Randy's directions on other forum and my sps crashed. I lost my sps (not even acros) when my nitrates reached 3 ppm. Dont think a shock was from nitrates but from impurities in that product. So be very careful what you do

IMO sodium nitrate is better to use . I used this to get rid of dino's by raising my nitrates. I have details on source and sol. make up upon request. Stump remover is potassium nitrate by the way. sorry for your loses

 

[Kongar]

So an unfortunate update. Confirmed my nitrates are zero by using another test kit, and verifying my original kit tests correctly in another tank.

Large Cell Amphidinium Dinos. Different behavior and looks than what I had seen of the usual dino pics and descriptions - thus why I assumed it was just a prolonged diatom bloom. I’ve decided to double my feedings, no more scraping algae on the glass, and I’m gonna try letting the tank get a little scummy to promote an algae growth to outcompete the dinos.

Thanks for all your help - pointed me quickly in the right direction. Thanks for helping us noobs out!

Wish me luck - looks like I’m going to need it =\

 

[Pistondog]

If you say you are feeding your fish enough, maybe you can consider feeding your corals a few times a week, like reef roids or somthing, that would probably benefit your corals and your zero nitrate issue at the same time.

Reef roids add excess phosphates.
Feed more mysis.

 

[Kongar]

Reef roids add excess phosphates.
Feed more mysis.

Got it - good to know. I’ll stick with Mysis and skip the roids.

 

[Pistondog]

Your tank sounds like a 3 month old tank.
Some kind of algae will cover the rocks, coralline is usually preferred.
You'll probably get some gha.
Get a nyos nitrates tester or hanna.
No experience with the hanna nitrate checker, but have 3 other hannas, good quality.
We have all had your experience.
Dinos thrive in low nutrient environment.
If you feel like spending money, copepods eat dinos and contribute to a healthy aquarium.

 

[Difrano]

So an unfortunate update. Confirmed my nitrates are zero by using another test kit, and verifying my original kit tests correctly in another tank.

Large Cell Amphidinium Dinos. Different behavior and looks than what I had seen of the usual dino pics and descriptions - thus why I assumed it was just a prolonged diatom bloom. I’ve decided to double my feedings, no more scraping algae on the glass, and I’m gonna try letting the tank get a little scummy to promote an algae growth to outcompete the dinos.

Thanks for all your help - pointed me quickly in the right direction. Thanks for helping us noobs out!

Wish me luck - looks like I’m going to need it =\

Good to know that we were able to help, I have 5 years in the hobby, and still consider to be a noob. Dinos can be defeated I did it once on my biocube 32.