0 phosphate-12 nitrate is this an issue

[Aquaplumb]

Hi team.
Im new to reefing only in the game 6 odd months and ive found my self in a situation where i need to ask if its ok to have 0 phosphate and 12ppm of nitrate, i was under the assumption to never let the numbers bottom out.. tank water is
0 ammonia
0 nitrite
12 nitrate
470 cal
9dkh alk
1277 mag
1026.5 sal
8.2 sal
Im currently dosing 2ml of no pox daily and started 5 days ago as my nitrates where at 25ppm in may and i was using phosguard untill 5 days ago and wasnt really getting much of a result so i swapped over to nonpox,
I have 2 clowns
2 velvet damsels
1 red head wrasse
bi colour blenny,
1 cleaner shrimp
2 trochus snails
1 cronch
1 sand cleaning star fish
Small corals x 7
200l tank total
3L of media from a mates tank
I have dosed photoplanton in the past and have copepods/ rots.
I use reef roids weekly at half the recommended amount and the same with ab plus
any info would be great cheers..

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Phosgard will reduce PO4, but will have no effect on NO3. Also, if the NoPoX is reducing NO3, I doubt that PO4 is really 0.000.

What are you using to measure PO4? If it truly is 0.000, I would increase the amount of ReefRoids you are feeding for a few weeks. That should increase the PO4. But before you do that, let's make sure that your PO4 really is 0.000.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Without phosphates you won’t be able to carry on dropping nitrates they will just stall at 12 or starting to increase again, the best method to raise phosphates efficiently is to use a artificial source of phosphorus that will allow you to raise phosphates in a controlled manner.

 

[Aquaplumb]

Ok no worries, I am using red sea pro PO4 and NO3 test kit. I hope that it may be a case of myself not reading the test result on the P04 correctly . I will retest in the morning, I understand what you are saying about not being able to drop NO3 without a reading of PO4 and will look into the chemistry of this more over the next few hrs, its almost midnight here in Aus so might need to finish this convo in the AM. Thanks fellas

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

Question for the larger group. If phosphates are at zero but nitrates are not...do Dinos come into play? Or you only get dinos when both bottom out?

 

[sixty_reefer]

Question for the larger group. If phosphates are at zero but nitrates are not...do Dinos come into play? Or you only get dinos when both bottom out?

If you have the cell in your tank they tent to bloom wend nitrates or phosphates bottom out, in those situations organic carbon becomes more available and could allow for them to multiply. The reason this may happen in mainly because the heterotrophic bacteria in your system becomes limited to at the nutrient level to be able to carry on limiting the carbon cycle and other organisms that are less dependent on phosphates and nitrates will take their place like dinoflagellates and Cyanobacteria.

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

If you have the cell in your tank they tent to bloom wend nitrates or phosphates bottom out, in those situations organic carbon becomes more available and could allow for them to multiply. The reason this may happen in mainly because the heterotrophic bacteria in your system becomes limited to at the nutrient level to be able to carry on limiting the carbon cycle and other organisms that are less dependent on phosphates and nitrates will take their place like dinoflagellates and Cyanobacteria.

Full agree. I actually dose carbon to bring levels down just to dose back nitrates and phosphates so that I can control the levels. Sounds self defeating but havent had dinos in a while because I always have some dirt in the water.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Full agree. I actually dose carbon to bring levels down just to dose back nitrates and phosphates so that I can control the levels. Sounds self defeating but havent had dinos in a while because I always have some dirt in the water.

I do the same, got all 3 nutrients on a dosing unit and just adjust as needed, it allows me to have a ULN without the concern of starting anything in the tank, reduce equipment and absorbing medias.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Question for the larger group. If phosphates are at zero but nitrates are not...do Dinos come into play? Or you only get dinos when both bottom out?

Yes. If the phosphate is less than 0.02 ppm, I’d dose it or feed more.

Too low is worse than too high for both nitrate and phosphate, IMO.

 

[thelonereefer1]

Following along

 

[Unitylover]

Just so you know, 0 phosphates will slowly starve corals.

 

[thelonereefer1]

I find myself in a similar dilemma. Nitrates are around 20 and phosphates appear to be around .2ish. So far the only issue it may be causing is for a couple of my acans to not puff up (not sure if this is actually the cause, just a potential guess) this is my first ever experience with this situation

 

[Unitylover]

I find myself in a similar dilemma. Nitrates are around 20 and phosphates appear to be around .2ish. So far the only issue it may be causing is for a couple of my acans to not puff up (not sure if this is actually the cause, just a potential guess) this is my first ever experience with this situation

thats pretty high, 0.05 ppm is what you should not go over, then algae, if its 0, starving corals.

 

[thelonereefer1]

thats pretty high, 0.05 ppm is what you should not go over, then algae, if its 0, starving corals.

How would you recommend going about lowering it? I’ve done a series of water changes which has helped lower the phosphates but the nitrates seem to remain the same. Now granted I’m trying to read the color shades of the API test kits.

 

[Unitylover]

How would you recommend going about lowering it? I’ve done a series of water changes which has helped lower the phosphates but the nitrates seem to remain the same. Now granted I’m trying to read the color shades of the API test kits.

0.2 is pretty high, so water changes or phosguard are good ideas.
if you're trying to read tests, it should be green if it really is 0.2 as you say. If its close to 0, it is a pale yellow.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Ok no worries, I am using red sea pro PO4 and NO3 test kit. I hope that it may be a case of myself not reading the test result on the P04 correctly . I will retest in the morning, I understand what you are saying about not being able to drop NO3 without a reading of PO4 and will look into the chemistry of this more over the next few hrs, its almost midnight here in Aus so might need to finish this convo in the AM. Thanks fellas

@Aquaplumb, hope you had a good sleep. I would recommend getting the Hanna ULR phosphate checker to measure PO4. It will be a lot more accurate/easier than what you are using.

As I stated and you seem to agree with, without PO4, you wouldn't be able to reduce NO3 using NoPoX. That leads me to think that you have low levels of PO4 in the tank. I would be careful continuing to use NoPoX though, because you can strip all of the PO4, causing other problems which you know about.

As @Randy Holmes-Farley said, you can feed more to raise the PO4, or you can dose PO4 to raise it. If you are still trying to lower NO3, I would suggest dosing a PO4 product and reduce the amount of NoPoX you are using. Try cutting it in half and see if NO3 still comes down. Once NO3 is around 5 ppm and PO4 is around 0.03-0.1, I would stop the NoPoX and PO4 dosing and see how things stabilize.

 

[Aquaplumb]

Thanks everyone for the great feedback.
so I have done a re test and was able to detect a reading of what i believe to be 0.01 The lighting in my house some times can throw the tests off. So my plan from here is to try and not let the phosphate's drop any lower, I can achieve this by limiting the use of no pox, feed the tank a bit heaver and let the water chemistry balance out over the next couple of weeks, my main objective to begin with was to drop nitrites and phosphates to a lower concentration to limit the growth of algae and see how my tank would react overall but not so low as to cause dinos, I tend to always have good water parameters but was never really happy with elevated PO4 and NO3.