100% coral reef mortality

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

What constitutes as political on here - I generally never talk about right/left wing, blue/red, lib/con etc. However, you can see from the replies here, that even just believing in climate change is considered a political stance by some.

This is a great topic, and near and dear to the hearts of anyone who loves this hobby.

Great question! It really does come down to associating commentary with political parties, political sides (left/right, blue/red, lib/con), or political entities in general. Also, we often see people associate one situation (i.e. the one in this discussion) with other social/cultural issues where the only common denominator is the associated political "side". These types of comments are considered political.

One of the things we also see regularly is people insulting others for holding an opposing view (while not necessarily political, this is also in violation of our rules...however, IME these insults usually go back to a political/social difference of opinion). HTH

 

[merkmerk73]

There are lots of things that people can do to help the situation with corals and climate change in general, from small to large. Lots of small effects add up to big effects.

Many folks might have to sacrifice something. Is that too much to ask?

Solar panels (on homes, in fields, on buildings, etc.), electric cars, smaller cars, windmills, pay more for renewable energy, less "perfect" indoor temps, living in less harsh locations, altered diets, leave trees standing on your property instead of creating a giant lawn, replace inefficient appliances, add insulation, the list is quite long.

FWIW, I do all of those in some fashion ( aside from owning a windmill).

That said, I'm skeptical that enough people are willing to sacrifice for the greater good, and our descendants are going to have a more difficult life because of it.

Every single one of these comes with massive unintended consequences

Windmills are slaughtering birds - especially birds of prey.

Electric cars need copper for the batteries - as well as cobalt - which requires slave mining in Africa and we don't have enough mines in the world to go fully electric.

Then the power for charging batteries has to come from somewhere - and for some reason the green lobby went nutty anti-nuclear decades ago, so there goes our best, cleanest power generation source.

The rest of your list reads like it came from the latest updated cult memo - "no more A/C, get used to 80 degrees in your home, peasant!", "eat bugs, no more meat", "lawns are bad!", "you must use the appliances we mandate"

And of course none of the ruling class will ever be subject to these sacrifices. That's only for us plebs. And then when an admin decides to commit an act of war and sabotage a foreign powers gas pipeline, you just undid 3 decades of sacrifice.

 

[merkmerk73]

I have to question your close family member’s politics then, because both China and India have about half the per capita carbon footprint that the US has. This is just a blatant anti-Chinese/anti-east nonsense.

Utter falsehood

From Bloomberg and one of the top google results

"while still smaller per-capita emitters compared to the US, are responsible for a much larger and steadily growing share of total current greenhouse gas emissions: China's are about 50% larger than America's"

Furthermore, neither country will commit or abide by any of the silly economy-destroying restrictions that the west wants to impose - because they aren't morons.

 

[Northern Flicker]

Calm down, why are you getting so spun-up when regime propaganda is challenged?

Zero (0) climate models have been accurate ever since the climate hysteria started. All of the "solutions" have been well documented as being proposed by the global regime in all of the western nation (WEF is a big driver)

None of them do anything when India & China are pumping pollutants without regard

We're all conservationists to some degree here. Humans are good at solving slow moving problems. I'd like to see more targetted solutions that make sense instead of stuff designed to get you to live like hunger games peasants while the blue hair ruling class slurps down caviar and A5 wagyu on their private jets.

I would love to see some big macoralgae farms setup to help with the acidification of the reefs - here's some info on that

Macroalgae aquaculture as a potential carbon dioxide removal strategy - Responsible Seafood Advocate

Macroalgae aquaculture has benefits but improvements are needed in monitoring, reporting, verification standards and carbon uptake assessments.

www.globalseafood.org

I think you are you confusing your feelings about class, politics and science. You don't need to fly in a private jet to read a scientific journal, where you will find papers written by people who are being held to standards and spending their lives in a university or research setting.

I also think the macroalgae plan looks interesting, thanks for the link. It is a nice potential solution to a fraction of the problem.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Utter falsehood

From Bloomberg and one of the top google results

"while still smaller per-capita emitters compared to the US, are responsible for a much larger and steadily growing share of total current greenhouse gas emissions: China's are about 50% larger than America's"

Furthermore, neither country will commit or abide by any of the silly economy-destroying restrictions that the west wants to impose - because they aren't morons.

You are confounding per capita emission with total emissions per country. He specifically said per capita.

 

[Northern Flicker]

Utter falsehood

From Bloomberg and one of the top google results

"while still smaller per-capita emitters compared to the US, are responsible for a much larger and steadily growing share of total current greenhouse gas emissions: China's are about 50% larger than America's"

Furthermore, neither country will commit or abide by any of the silly economy-destroying restrictions that the west wants to impose - because they aren't morons.

I think you are misunderstanding. @MaxTremors said per capita. You seem to be quoting a source that is referencing the entire country's emissions.

EDIT: @Randy Holmes-Farley beat me to it.

 

[Northern Flicker]

Great question! It really does come down to associating commentary with political parties, political sides (left/right, blue/red, lib/con), or political entities in general. Also, we often see people associate one situation (i.e. the one in this discussion) with other social/cultural issues where the only common denominator is the associated political "side". These types of comments are considered political.

One of the things we also see regularly is people insulting others for holding an opposing view (while not necessarily political, this is also in violation of our rules...however, IME these insults usually go back to a political/social difference of opinion). HTH

Agree with this fully, thanks for clarifying! Makes sense to me.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Every single one of these comes with massive unintended consequences

Windmills are slaughtering birds - especially birds of prey.

Electric cars need copper for the batteries - as well as cobalt - which requires slave mining in Africa and we don't have enough mines in the world to go fully electric.

Then the power for charging batteries has to come from somewhere - and for some reason the green lobby went nutty anti-nuclear decades ago, so there goes our best, cleanest power generation source.

The rest of your list reads like it came from the latest updated cult memo - "no more A/C, get used to 80 degrees in your home, peasant!", "eat bugs, no more meat", "lawns are bad!", "you must use the appliances we mandate"

And of course none of the ruling class will ever be subject to these sacrifices. That's only for us plebs. And then when an admin decides to commit an act of war and sabotage a foreign powers gas pipeline, you just undid 3 decades of sacrifice.

Look deeper. Look in a mirror and take Michael Jackson's words to heart.

I'm willing to make the changes I listed. Why aren't you? WHY?

I charge my electric cars from my electric panels, and the house is still a net producer of electricity.

There are answers to every point you try to make.

 

[MaxTremors]

Utter falsehood

From Bloomberg and one of the top google results

"while still smaller per-capita emitters compared to the US, are responsible for a much larger and steadily growing share of total current greenhouse gas emissions: China's are about 50% larger than America's"

Furthermore, neither country will commit or abide by any of the silly economy-destroying restrictions that the west wants to impose - because they aren't morons.

You’re wrong. The US has an annual per capita CO2 consumption rate of 17.75 metric tons, China has a rate of 6.27.

List of countries by carbon dioxide emissions per capita - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Now, because both China and India produce most of the worlds goods, they have a higher overall CO2 rate, but the average Chinese citizen has less than half of the carbon footprint of the average US citizen.

 

[TheSheff]

I wonder if we will be able to culture corals specifically to withstand higher temperatures. I know some people keep their tanks around 82 Fahrenheit so it's definitely possible.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I wonder if we will be able to culture corals specifically to withstand higher temperatures. I know some people keep their tanks around 82 Fahrenheit so it's definitely possible.

I'm afraid that sort of thing will be needed going forward. The issue is the resources to do it.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

Calm down, why are you getting so spun-up when regime propaganda is challenged?

Zero (0) climate models have been accurate ever since the climate hysteria started. All of the "solutions" have been well documented as being proposed by the global regime in all of the western nation (WEF is a big driver)

None of them do anything when India & China are pumping pollutants without regard

We're all conservationists to some degree here. Humans are good at solving slow moving problems. I'd like to see more targetted solutions that make sense instead of stuff designed to get you to live like hunger games peasants while the blue hair ruling class slurps down caviar and A5 wagyu on their private jets.

I would love to see some big macoralgae farms setup to help with the acidification of the reefs - here's some info on that

Macroalgae aquaculture as a potential carbon dioxide removal strategy - Responsible Seafood Advocate

Macroalgae aquaculture has benefits but improvements are needed in monitoring, reporting, verification standards and carbon uptake assessments.

www.globalseafood.org

Basic science isn't regime propaganda. Your just stuck on believing right wing propaganda that has no basis in fact.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

Every single one of these comes with massive unintended consequences

Windmills are slaughtering birds - especially birds of prey.

Electric cars need copper for the batteries - as well as cobalt - which requires slave mining in Africa and we don't have enough mines in the world to go fully electric.

Then the power for charging batteries has to come from somewhere - and for some reason the green lobby went nutty anti-nuclear decades ago, so there goes our best, cleanest power generation source.

The rest of your list reads like it came from the latest updated cult memo - "no more A/C, get used to 80 degrees in your home, peasant!", "eat bugs, no more meat", "lawns are bad!", "you must use the appliances we mandate"

And of course none of the ruling class will ever be subject to these sacrifices. That's only for us plebs. And then when an admin decides to commit an act of war and sabotage a foreign powers gas pipeline, you just undid 3 decades of sacrifice.

You really believe the us blew up a pipeline? Can't help people like you. You Should just be banned for misinformation so we can move on with life.

 

[Northern Flicker]

At some point it may actually be more humane to buy wild caught, considering what’s happening to so many reef habitats out there.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Who is stopping you from eating meat!? It seems like you've painted that target on yourself.

You are essentially saying "I know better than people who have spent entire decades researching and analyzing scientific problems in a peer reviewed setting where accountability matters".

Are we supposed to trust your ideas over theirs?

What papers have you written?

What school did you go to?

What are your credentials?

Have you put in the work? The thousands of hours? The training and the discipline?

If it's just "I don't like new ideas" or politically motivated, I am not interested. That kind of thinking is what got us here.

He is right about meat, look up C40 cities - it's all spelled out. There is a website for it, nobody is hiding anything.

There are progressive and ambitious tables of goals that they are trying to achieve. In the ambitious table there would be 0 meat consumption per person/per year, also private car ownership limited to between 0-12% of population.

Plenty of materials for you to read...if you want/care to.

 

[Troylee]

Who said don’t eat meat? Lol..

 

[HomebroodExotics]

I love seeing the people around here who are being victimized for their love of meat lol. As someone who regularly smokes meat as hobby I have never once felt like someone was trying to stop me from doing so.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Do you have a chart going back further than 2005?

You are using this chart as proof that the problem is not there, but personally, I see that chart and I see two temperature records in a 5 year span.

What we really need to know is at what temperature does the ecosystem begin to collapse? What are the healthy ranges? And how often has this temperature been recorded over the last 150 years (or however far back it's been recorded).


How can 100F be "the statistical norm" if 99.7F was the previous record?

What he stated is that the temperature recorded in one part of Florida at a buoy is not the temperature of water around all of Florida. This buoy is in water so shallow that a rain fall brought the water around it to 80+ degrees the next day.

Not saying we are not reaching record temps, but the media often takes things out of context.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Do you have a chart going back further than 2005?

You are using this chart as proof that the problem is not there, but personally, I see that chart and I see two temperature records in a 5 year span.

What we really need to know is at what temperature does the ecosystem begin to collapse? What are the healthy ranges? And how often has this temperature been recorded over the last 150 years (or however far back it's been recorded).


How can 100F be "the statistical norm" if 99.7F was the previous record?

How could 99.7F be previous record when in 2017 the same buoy registered 102

 

[thedon986]

Look deeper. Look in a mirror and take Michael Jackson's words to heart.

I'm willing to make the changes I listed. Why aren't you? WHY?

I charge my electric cars from my electric panels, and the house is still a net producer of electricity.

There are answers to every point you try to make.

Yikes this comes off as very ivory tower. I have solar panels too and net produce except Nov-Feb, but I don't expect or demand everyone else make commitments that are huge financial investments especially with all this temporary inflation.