100 gallons Acros Tank

[Mr V]

Did you test your nutrients to see if they were in fact too low?

I did test for po4. It’s 0.03 ppm. I don’t know how to interpret it, low/normal?
But the thing happened when I added more fishes in the system (3 anthias, powder blue tang, 2 wrasses, 2 other small fishes). Since adding too many fish in a short period of time so I decided to add bacteria in the bottle (bacter 7, overdosed with 4 cap~20mil per day). Maybe due to the amount of bacteria added, the nutrients suddenly dropped and affected the corals. Well, that’s how I explained it not base on test result.
I did water change and carbon to make sure if there is any toxic element (something dead, animals drop in the tank,...) they will removed. Then I set up an automatic feeder that feed pellet 4 times per day (still feed frozen 1 time). And cut back the bacter7 to 1 cap per day. Also lower the light intensity to 45% (from 70%).
I don’t have any case of rtn/stn for a couple day now.

 

[Arron209]

Sorry to hear about your stn/rtn. It’s dissapointing to see the focus of our tanks (sps) not doing good. Hopefully everything turns around for you bro.

 

[Peppe]

Well, I think since I documented the good, I should document the bad too.
I bought mine at BRS

is the two-part system brand BRS?

 

[d_adler]

I did test for po4. It’s 0.03 ppm. I don’t know how to interpret it, low/normal?
But the thing happened when I added more fishes in the system (3 anthias, powder blue tang, 2 wrasses, 2 other small fishes). Since adding too many fish in a short period of time so I decided to add bacteria in the bottle (bacter 7, overdosed with 4 cap~20mil per day). Maybe due to the amount of bacteria added, the nutrients suddenly dropped and affected the corals. Well, that’s how I explained it not base on test result.
I did water change and carbon to make sure if there is any toxic element (something dead, animals drop in the tank,...) they will removed. Then I set up an automatic feeder that feed pellet 4 times per day (still feed frozen 1 time). And cut back the bacter7 to 1 cap per day. Also lower the light intensity to 45% (from 70%).
I don’t have any case of rtn/stn for a couple day now.

Do you think you may be doing to much at once that may cause a domino effect? The only reason I say this is because I did the same thing and it only made the situation worse in my case. I think if you set the auto feeder up for one or 2 additional feedings and your froZen that’s more than adequate. I would definitely slow down on the bacteria as well. Do a maintenance dose. Start testing and go from there.

Disclaimer: I’m no professional and I’m only giving an opinion from my experiences.

Btw I love this tank and your 45 gallon. Long time fan!

 

[cobra2326]

I've definitely learned that dropping nutrients too fast is not a good thing for an otherwise healthy tank. My PO4 recently bottomed out (from 15ppb to 0ppb on Hanna ULR) and immediately dinos started showing up. This happened because I was dosing Nitrates to keep them above 0. Be careful when manipulating nutrients! I know you agree: a little green on the rocks is a sign of health!

 

[BigJohnny]

@Mr V

The issue could have definitely been at least partly due to the bacteria product you chose, mb7. In the future use dr. Tims one n only or biospira when concerned about fish population/adding too many fish at once. Mb7 has some different bacteria and a carbon source which will end up reducing nitrate and phosphate rather than simply helping process ammonia/nitrite.

 

[Mr V]

Do you think you may be doing to much at once that may cause a domino effect? The only reason I say this is because I did the same thing and it only made the situation worse in my case. I think if you set the auto feeder up for one or 2 additional feedings and your froZen that’s more than adequate. I would definitely slow down on the bacteria as well. Do a maintenance dose. Start testing and go from there.

Disclaimer: I’m no professional and I’m only giving an opinion from my experiences.

Btw I love this tank and your 45 gallons. Long time fan!

Thank you.
I forgot to mention that I set up the auto feeder to roll 4 times per day just to split the feeding portion equally throughout the day. I fed my fishes 2 cubes before I added new fishes (no pellet, no bacteria). Then I fed them 4 cubes (without pellet, 4 cup bacter7). Now it 3 cubes (with pellet and 1 cup bacter7 every 2 days).
I start seeing algae on the glass, and it's been 5 days since the last stn happens. Everything that not affect doing great. All the one that affected has been brought to my 45 and recovering ( I am lucky having 2 separate systems!).

I've definitely learned that dropping nutrients too fast is not a good thing for an otherwise healthy tank. My PO4 recently bottomed out (from 15ppb to 0ppb on Hanna ULR) and immediately dinos started showing up. This happened because I was dosing Nitrates to keep them above 0. Be careful when manipulating nutrients! I know you agree: a little green on the rocks is a sign of health!

Totally agree my friend! You know me, I like to guess the nutrient level by observing algae.
Funny that when I add new fishes and raise the feeding, I got some brown stringy algae. Just a tiny bit, but I afraid they could be dino and I decided to bring the fight to them before they can even spread. I had great experience defeat dino with bacter7 before and that's one of the reasons why I decided to dose 4~5 cap per day.
Lesson learned: Know your algae! [emoji4]

@Mr V

The issue could have definitely been at least partly due to the bacteria product you chose, mb7. In the future use dr. Tims one n only or biospira when concerned about fish population/adding too many fish at once. Mb7 has some different bacteria and a carbon source which will end up reducing nitrate and phosphate rather than simply helping process ammonia/nitrite.

Yeah. I use too much of it too.
My rule of thumb is using Dr Tim when cycling new tank and mb7 when something wrong happens.

 

[cobra2326]

Totally agree my friend! You know me, I like to guess the nutrient level by observing algae.
Funny that when I add new fishes and raise the feeding, I got some brown stringy algae. Just a tiny bit, but I afraid they could be dino and I decided to bring the fight to them before they can even spread. I had great experience defeat dino with bacter7 before and that's one of the reasons why I decided to dose 4~5 cap per day.
Lesson learned: Know your algae!

Interesting to hear that MB7 helped against Dinos. Mine were just barely there too, and I've already almost eliminated them just by elevating nutrients. MB7 is almost like magic to me still, but there are definitely a lot of complex organic processes going on in our tanks that we can't measure and likely don't even understand, so I can see how introducing new strains of bacteria would help shift things in the right direction.

 

[cobra2326]

@Mr V

The issue could have definitely been at least partly due to the bacteria product you chose, mb7. In the future use dr. Tims one n only or biospira when concerned about fish population/adding too many fish at once. Mb7 has some different bacteria and a carbon source which will end up reducing nitrate and phosphate rather than simply helping process ammonia/nitrite.

MB7 has a carbon source? Do you have a reference for this?

 

[BigJohnny]

MB7 has a carbon source? Do you have a reference for this?

Brightwell usually doesn't list their ingredients but I know from experience in one battle a few years back fighting a certain type of dino that it drastically lowered my nitrate and phosphate very quickly (also worked for my dinos) when dosed at 4x recommend amount daily. Also, the product itself is marketed to reduce nitrate and phosphate as well as other nutrients. The side effect of this was I lost a ton of corals because I had no idea it would do that either. I thought it was just nitrobacter/etc like Biospira. Biospira and Dr.tims one and only are to help establish the first two parts of the nitrogen cycle and basically just assist/expedite the processing of ammonia and nitrate. MB7 is designed to lower nutrients through many avenues:

"Brightwell Aquatics MicrōBacter7 is a selective complex of extremely effective microbes and enzymes that rapidly reduces the concentrations of organic nitrogen, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, and organic carbon in all marine and freshwater ecosystems, leading to greatly improved water quality; better water quality typically leads to healthier aquarium inhabitants."

While they both may end up helping reduce nitrate eventually, microbacter7 does so almost directly IME and that can only be accomplished from a bottle via a carbon source. I wouldn't expect biospira to reduce phosphate either.

 

[Mr V]

Interesting to hear that MB7 helped against Dinos. Mine were just barely there too, and I've already almost eliminated them just by elevating nutrients. MB7 is almost like magic to me still, but there are definitely a lot of complex organic processes going on in our tanks that we can't measure and likely don't even understand, so I can see how introducing new strains of bacteria would help shift things in the right direction.

Mb7 is not magical medicine to treat dino. But the idea is using bacteria to compete the food source of dino to helps fighting again it.
Here’s my procedure of treating dino: the specific info my not correct since it’s been at least 2~3 years since I read about it. But the procedure worked on my tank and 2 other tanks of my friends.
1. Completely stop water change: dino feed on new water trace elements..
2. Lower light intensity: lower down one of dino food source.
3. Over dosing bacteria (I used mb7 because it cheap): over dosing it. Everyday. It served 2 purposes: compete with dino for food. On the other hand, when the tank has dino, snails will die off and nutrient rise up. Bacteria in the bottle is the fastest way to reduce the unnecessary nutrients.
4. Siphon it out with a net put in the sump so just the dino out. Again, no water change
5. Blow dino off the rocks everyday.

Brightwell usually doesn't list their ingredients but I know from experience in one battle a few years back fighting a certain type of dino that it drastically lowered my nitrate and phosphate very quickly (also worked for my dinos) when dosed at 4x recommend amount daily. Also, the product itself is marketed to reduce nitrate and phosphate as well as other nutrients. The side effect of this was I lost a ton of corals because I had no idea it would do that either. I thought it was just nitrobacter/etc like Biospira. Biospira and Dr.tims one and only are to help establish the first two parts of the nitrogen cycle and basically just assist/expedite the processing of ammonia and nitrate. MB7 is designed to lower nutrients through many avenues:

"Brightwell Aquatics MicrōBacter7 is a selective complex of extremely effective microbes and enzymes that rapidly reduces the concentrations of organic nitrogen, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, and organic carbon in all marine and freshwater ecosystems, leading to greatly improved water quality; better water quality typically leads to healthier aquarium inhabitants."

While they both may end up helping reduce nitrate eventually, microbacter7 does so almost directly IME and that can only be accomplished from a bottle via a carbon source. I wouldn't expect biospira to reduce phosphate either.

I am not convinced by your explanation.[emoji4]

Carbon dosing is a method of increasing bacteria population(beneficials bacteria) by introducing their food source (carbon source)
Bacteria in the bottle is live beneficials bacteria. Dosing mb7 is directly increasing beneficials bacteria population.

So both methods have the same goal: increasing beneficials bacteria to reduce nutrients (amonia, nitrite, phosphate, nitrate).

I don’t know if mb7 has carbon source or not. But denitrify bacteria can reduce phosphate also.

 

[Second Shot]

Mb7 is not magical medicine to treat dino. But the idea is using bacteria to compete the food source of dino to helps fighting again it.
Here’s my procedure of treating dino: the specific info my not correct since it’s been at least 2~3 years since I read about it. But the procedure worked on my tank and 2 other tanks of my friends.
1. Completely stop water change: dino feed on new water trace elements..
2. Lower light intensity: lower down one of dino food source.
3. Over dosing bacteria (I used mb7 because it cheap): over dosing it. Everyday. It served 2 purposes: compete with dino for food. On the other hand, when the tank has dino, snails will die off and nutrient rise up. Bacteria in the bottle is the fastest way to reduce the unnecessary nutrients.
4. Siphon it out with a net put in the sump so just the dino out. Again, no water change
5. Blow dino off the rocks everyday.






I am not convinced by your explanation.[emoji4]

Carbon dosing is a method of increasing bacteria population(beneficials bacteria) by introducing their food source (carbon source)
Bacteria in the bottle is live beneficials bacteria. Dosing mb7 is directly increasing beneficials bacteria population.

So both methods have the same goal: increasing beneficials bacteria to reduce nutrients (amonia, nitrite, phosphate, nitrate).

I don’t know if mb7 has carbon source or not. But denitrify bacteria can reduce phosphate also.

FWIW Brightwells carbon source is the Reef Biofuel. Obviously no one knows what is in it but brightwells guides say to use mb7 for bacteria and Biofuel for the carbon source.

 

[flowflezy]

Very nice and clean looking

 

[BigJohnny]

I am not convinced by your explanation.[emoji4]

Carbon dosing is a method of increasing bacteria population(beneficials bacteria) by introducing their food source (carbon source)
Bacteria in the bottle is live beneficials bacteria. Dosing mb7 is directly increasing beneficials bacteria population.

So both methods have the same goal: increasing beneficials bacteria to reduce nutrients (amonia, nitrite, phosphate, nitrate).

I don’t know if mb7 has carbon source or not. But denitrify bacteria can reduce phosphate also.

Mr. V! You gotta brush up on that science man! Although the tank looks EPIC regardless

Denitrifying bacteria CANNOT reduce phosphate. There is a whole different group of bacteria that deal with that.

Carbon dosing and adding "bacteria in a bottle" in the traditional sense (like biospira/dr. tims one n only) do not have the same goal. Carbon dosing aims to reduce nitrate and phosphate levels in the aquarium, biospira and dr.tims one and only help establish/assist the current bacterial population in performing the nitrogen cycle (mainly the first two parts, ammonia to nitrite, nitrite to nitrate). You would not see any significant reduction (if at all) of nitrate by adding biospira/dr. tims one and only, and certainly no reduction in phosphate.

MB7 claims to reduce all nutrients including nitrate and phosphate. In order to do that in any significant capacity it must contain a carbon source IMO and possibly some additional bacteria strains aimed at reducing nitrate and phosphate. IME it does just that, reduce nutrients quickly.

Therefore, unless you are trying to quickly lower your nutrients (especially when dosing 4x recommended amount), use biospira or dr. tims when worried about adding new fish. It is a much safer choice IMO because it will not stress or kill your corals like MB7 can.

 

[BigJohnny]

FWIW Brightwells carbon source is the Reef Biofuel. Obviously no one knows what is in it but brightwells guides say to use mb7 for bacteria and Biofuel for the carbon source.

Yea that is a separate product and with brightwell that means nothing, it certainly doesn't mean that MB7 doesn't contain a carbon source. It would be 100% brightwell to include a carbon source in both products. For example, all their xxxplankton foods contain amino acids, so do their "coral amino" products and one more I forget the name. They recommend you use all of them (of course they do).

 

[cobra2326]

@BigJohnny Meh, these are just your opinions. They may or may not be correct. Our tanks are extremely complex in the interactions between various organic and inorganic substances. Your tank may have had an excess of DOC that was enough to feed the bacteria and thus drop nutrients low. Carbon is already much more abundant than other organics in our tanks. In fact, over on the Dinos thread, there is some speculation that excess carbon could be part of what is fueling dinos, perhaps excess organic carbon.

I appreciate the discussion and even the strong opinions, but lets not forget that very few things are proven fact in this hobby. And even those are dependent on many variables which we may or may not be able to control, let alone manipulate.

 

[cobra2326]

What putty do you use to keep corals from fighting? Thinking of picking up some AquaStik, but whatever you use seems to work well for that purpose.

Apologies if this has already been asked, couldn't find it elsewhere.

 

[BigJohnny]

@BigJohnny Meh, these are just your opinions. They may or may not be correct. Our tanks are extremely complex in the interactions between various organic and inorganic substances. Your tank may have had an excess of DOC that was enough to feed the bacteria and thus drop nutrients low. Carbon is already much more abundant than other organics in our tanks. In fact, over on the Dinos thread, there is some speculation that excess carbon could be part of what is fueling dinos, perhaps excess organic carbon.

I appreciate the discussion and even the strong opinions, but lets not forget that very few things are proven fact in this hobby. And even those are dependent on many variables which we may or may not be able to control, let alone manipulate.

Nah, majority of what I said was not my opinion but widely accepted facts in the scientific community. Everything else I said "IMO" and did not claim it to be fact. I'm not interested in debating this further and distracting from the OPs tank. I was just trying to help/inform the OP.

Thanks

 

[Bdrake]

Very nice . if my LFS was in walking distance - i'd be living paycheck to paycheck

I'm kind of glad I have to drive at least an hour for the same reason

 

[Mr V]

Nah, majority of what I said was not my opinion but widely accepted facts in the scientific community. Everything else I said "IMO" and did not claim it to be fact. I'm not interested in debating this further and distracting from the OPs tank. I was just trying to help/inform the OP.

Thanks

It's cool my friend. ain't we all here for new information?!

What putty do you use to keep corals from fighting? Thinking of picking up some AquaStik, but whatever you use seems to work well for that purpose.

Apologies if this has already been asked, couldn't find it elsewhere.

I use aquaStick but I think you can just use anything that cheap. Put a little coral glue on the epoxy before apply it or it won't stick.