100% Water Change

[brandon429]

that is a perfect conception of what cycling in 2020 and beyond is going to look like for a long, long time.
People simply want a valid, permitted didnt break anyone's rules start date.

I can imagine the nice action in that reef/ vortex current up top carrying feed around nicely, rocks maturing on time as they should with the various attachments that come and go, all set

 

[Cell]

So bizarre for detractors to show up after the tank is already proven to be cycled. Just demonstrates how ingrained confusion and misinformation surrounding cycling is within the hobby.

 

[brandon429]

I think I’ll rate this thread as the most important cycling thread of 2020. we can address about ten really serious cycling conflicts in today’s reefing, from this one thread.

 

[brandon429]

Bet
in all of 2021 a more important or illuminating thread on advanced cycling science does not appear.

nobody writes an article about reef surface area that accounts for the actions and outcomes in this thread, but I bet more brands of bottle bac pop up for sale.


the money generator for the hobby is buying bottled bacteria, especially after perceiving a deficit for one or more reasons

Or for nutrition

so nobody writes about surface area...a gap of info exists


it’s all about the bacteria to us, always lacking (claimed)

see how that’s a sales and purchase driver

Surface area mechanics cycled this reef and will profoundly offset the bottle bac sales machine once highlighted, give us till 2025 they want to sell more bottle bac a few years


after all we broke eight ppm here which is the universal claimed sterility cutoff, anybody knows that. The fact it did not harm any aspect of the cycle timing might be worth a reinspection of the rules for cycling, we break them routinely.

 

[brandon429]

Bump

 

[brandon429]

@jackalexander

Hey J

you haven't been active in a year just wondering if you're around reefing still

this thread has turned out to be very very helpful in proofing rules regarding new vs old cycling science


guess how many reported fails we have in using the 100% water change method to unstick cycles: none

on about test # 670 too, bunches have used this method. I bet a thousand reefers used the method reporting nothing back at all, it just works and they proceed.

 

[wolfen281]

agreed Im speculating it too but its on the heels of about 200 threads like this, we move from anecdote into new rules just this way, patterns logged for independent inspection.

and if calls are made wrong, the losses and death will stand out as lack of nh3 control in any animal is just purely devastating. they can't act normal with no kidney or nephridial function/respiring organisms

I have been using this thread for weeks on end in private message links to show others how to move forward with a start date. have a nice big reef with several hundred in frags starting tomorrow because we just demonstrated the same motion as we did here.

we are literally using this thread to offshoot hundreds of new reefs.

We can also see that no reef cycle stalls, and that nitrite doesn't have a bearing whatsoever.

So, I just started a new 90gallon reef tank 8 days ago. My tank was able to process added ammonium chloride (Dr. Tim's) from 1ppm down to 0.2ppm in 24 hrs (red sea kit)

However, my nitrite reading (red sea kit) has been 1+ and nitrate = 100 (red sea) and 65 (NYOS).

According to Dr. Tim I have a stalled cycle, and should do a water change.
But according to this above statement, if my tank can process ammonia, then the nitrites don't matter in the context of a cycled tanks ability to safely support a fish? @brandon429

Thanks!

 

[Sleeping Giant]

Following

 

[brandon429]

didn’t see bottle bac brand mentioned above, but something in that tank is active if it moves ammonia down in eight days, and bottle bac does that. If you add life right now it will live, unburned, the cycle is ready (proof: google any cycle with bottle bac and fish used on day one, you’re eight extra days in)


Totally dry systems using no bottle bac could not move ammonia this quick, so from that action proof we know you’re ready either due to active bottle bac dosed or using already live rock in your new setup.

you don’t have to change water in a 90

its already ready. We did that here so Jack could produce clean test results and it works in all tanks, his nano was just easy to model with. Your cycle is ready due to active surfaces present and or bottle bac added that directly lowered ammonia



also handy context: going off old cycling rules, anything above 5 ppm kills bacteria and stalls the cycle, Jacks tank wasn’t ready. We directly showed it was, that’s why old cycle science is not useful and causes unneeded sales of bottle bacteria. jacks thread here is one of the most important in reefing because he showed their rules to be quite pliable, not fixed at all.


the thread here we are reading from JackAlexander is one of the most important microbiology threads in the hobby, though it seems like just a normal post. One single post and then 500 people copying this outcome completely unends the claims made in a macna talk video posted on YouTube and referenced by thousands, it’s important.

I find that cycling information coming from independent sources to pattern out much better in practice than cycle rules that come from the bottle bac industry.

 

[brandon429]

When you apply TAN conversion from red sea instructions to your .2 reading you get .02, which is safe zone on the instructions

nh3 form is all we care about. Your test kit backs up ammonia control here nicely. Moving a ppm down to that means the bac you added are fine


choose a disease protocol

just because you can carry fish doesn’t mean you should carry unprepared no qt fish/ doing this en masse keeps the fish disease forum a very active place.

if you were using a digital ammonia test kit (seneye) your level would read .002

red sea cannot read that low, they constantly over report but .02 is good enough for every reef, the directions in the ammonia kit show.

 

[eddiegee]

this will be very helpful for others to see, a clear calibrated test set. I dont recall one with such clear pics as we have so far. nice one, very helpful to see how to get API to work

Good stuff man. Thank you.

 

[brandon429]

Jack your thread is still the most important cycling unstall thread I recall seeing, we're approaching 2022 nothing beats it for a works example. nice job on your clean documentation for the life arc of a reef tank.

if there was ever an article for threads that absolutely smashed old reefing paradigms this one gets in.

 

[UltraKelius]

Hi Brandon,
I’ve just read through this thread and am amazed to see the change in thinking behind cycling. I’m having same issue as OP with QT tank.
It’s bare bottom apart from a handful of Caribsea Fragzone pieces just in there for bacteria and also to make future fish feel more at home. Also have a bag of ceramic media on the bottom and filter sponge I removed from a UV filter (this filter has not been in tank at all since starting cycle) I will add filter into the tank as soon as I know bacteria have settled, and currently my API tests have been making me believe I have no bacteria!

I used Seachem Stability and added Dr Tim’s ammonia to kick it off.

I’m on day 10 and API test is reading 8ppm ammonia, 0 nitrite and 0 nitrate.
Salifert Ammonia reads 1.5ppm ammonia and 0.2ppm nitrate. I don’t have Salifert Nitrite test kit.
I’m ready to do a 100% water change after work tomorrow, and follow above steps. Thanks for opening my eyes! Fingers crossed I will see some results over the next week.

 

[Tbg299]

So in my previous thread, I had an ammonia issue that was out of hand. As suggested, I did a 100% WC and now i’m wondering when I should start adding fish back. If anyone has suggestions, let me know!

When you start adding fish back, expect a mini cycle to occur. You removed a lot of nitrifying bacteria from the water.i would recommend adding some Bio Spira or something to help repopulate the bacteria

 

[brandon429]

I posted in private message some clear cycle approach distinctions between high surface area displays, Jack's reef from this thread, and Ultra's upcoming low surface area setup where contact zones to the active surface area is very different than display reefs.

It will still be easy to cycle this on a predicted date. That's what was sent in chat, the unique ways we'll handle surface area and contact differences.

For example, media on the bottom doesn't have a jet aiming at it to push water through...water mainly flows around it taking path of zero resistance, small details like this matter.

Outcome is coming up as we run the plan which is unique to qt cycles

Bacteria still adhere when the label on the bottle bac says it will, that's consistent. What changes is i requested to see a pic of the qt and the projected fish load so that I can spot any flow or contact issues, we need them maximized

heres a winning Qt cycle fix using out method, changing out the wastewater vs waiting two months for it to clear on its own, then using the system.

Stalled Cycle?

20 gallon QT tank set up 30 days ago. I do not have a DT set up yet, just trying to get a jump on fish to add to my tank and make sure they're healthy and pest free right from the get go. Like I said tank was set up 30 days ago. Sponge filter and HOB filter running sponge and ceramic. Used...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[brandon429]

Tbg299

Check Jack's post date-this thread is a year old

Sometimes I miss em too when they're extended follow up posts, usually five pagers are a few days old.

We have the results already on file of the full water change

consider reading how well this post details no bottle bac used, it's all updated cycling science. It's a work thread, we will be using live aquariums here as the outcome examples in future works

I mainly do assessments by chat only now, it prevents arguments taking over. The threads will hold the outcome proofs, the custom assessments will be handled in chats


Posted here because future readers need to consider cycling and surface area differences between displays and quarantine setups

 

[jackalexander]

Here’s an update picture. Tank is looking amazing today! (Don’t tell the tang police but I used a sailfin for some hair algae control)

 

[Tbg299]

Tbg299

Check Jack's post date-this thread is a year old

Sometimes I miss em too when they're extended follow up posts, usually five pagers are a few days old.

We have the results already on file of the full water change

consider reading how well this post details no bottle bac used, it's all updated cycling science. It's a work thread, we will be using live aquariums here as the outcome examples in future works

I mainly do assessments by chat only now, it prevents arguments taking over. The threads will hold the outcome proofs, the custom assessments will be handled in chats


Posted here because future readers need to consider cycling and surface area differences between displays and quarantine setups

Didn't realize this thread was created in 2020. Thought it was recent. My apologies. Anyway Jack, your reef looks great. Obviously you're doing a great job. Cheers,

Tim

 

[brandon429]

Tim the other day I missed one that was kicked up in 2015 yep, it was the most recent poster input that had me assessing the cycle all set way back~

Jack the tank is just great I had feared you took it down. I estimate this thread has helped hundreds maybe thousands to unstick small nano cycles, we use the method on quarantines and large tanks where they’re willing to do the big timed water change

this last year I’ve been linking your thread about twice a week in chats and assorted posts


******the useful part is they’re not doing the multi step re assessment for ammonia *** we use the fact your tank passed, and they’re using same amounts of surface area, to show the readers their systems were ready too given as many days wait in such a bottle bac stew.



this last update just provided a very rare long term follow up for advanced cycling science, many times we never hear back as people move, tanks get broken or crash or upgrade etc. rare thread man, rare. I knew it was a gem on page one.

 

[jackalexander]

Tim the other day I missed one that was kicked up in 2015 yep, it was the most recent poster input that had me assessing the cycle all set way back~

Jack the tank is just great I had feared you took it down. I estimate this thread has helped hundreds maybe thousands to unstick small nano cycles, we use the method on quarantines and large tanks where they’re willing to do the big timed water change

this last year I’ve been linking your thread about twice a week in chats and assorted posts


******the useful part is they’re not doing the multi step re assessment for ammonia *** we use the fact your tank passed, and they’re using same amounts of surface area, to show the readers their systems were ready too given as many days wait in such a bottle bac stew.



this last update just provided a very rare long term follow up for advanced cycling science, many times we never hear back as people move, tanks get broken or crash or upgrade etc. rare thread man, rare. I knew it was a gem on page one.

Well it wouldn’t be possible without your help, I thank you for that!