125 SPS TURNOVER RATE

[R6REEFER]

Hello fellow reefers,
I'm not by any means new to the hobby but this is my first sump implicated system. It's a 125 reef ready aqueon which I plumbed and did alot of the wood work already. Here's my question:
I plan on using 120 lbs of Ocean Direct Original live sand. Although not as small as oolite, the granules are a tad smaller than the infamous Fiji pink sand. This tank's equipment will be nothing but the latest and greatest (in my opinion) such as an Ecotech Vectra M1, 2x Ecotech MP40QD's, Skimz Monzter 163 skimmer, 3x Hydra 52's, True Temp titanium 500w heater, etc. After calculating my sump volume and a ballpark turnover rate for this equipment, the turnover rate will be greater than 100 times the volume of the system. With that being said, would that be too much flow for the Ocean Direct sand? I'm in search of the whitest, finest sand I can get away with which has landed me on the Ocean Direct. Any personal experiences with the stuff? I don't want to spend $100+ on sand that will do nothing but sandstorm. Thanks guys,

R6REEFER

 

[Myka]

Is there a reason you posted this 3 times?

You will have a sandstorm with 100x turnover. Even with the comparatively coarse Caribsea Special Grade sand, positioning and cycles of powerheads have to be considered. When using powerheads that cycle on and off and ramp up and down though, it's not the same as being at 100x turnover constantly.

Is this a 6' 125? If so, I don't think those MP40's will cut it. You'll need at least one more, maybe two. On that topic, I also think it's rather silly to be using that giant return pump to push 14x turnover through the sump. You're going to blow skimmer bubbles into the display tank and irritate the corals. You should have anywhere in the 3-8x turnover range. I aim for 5-6x. So if you turn that Vectra down to the 900 gph you should have it at (assuming your sump is about 25 gallons of additional volume), which would give you about 6x turnover through the sump, then you're sitting at about 58x turnover in the display when both of the MP40s happen to be on at 100% (which won't be for long stretches). If this is a 4' tank this might be enough flow, but not in a 6' with SPS - especially once they start growing in.

Fwiw, I'd suggest you use two smaller heaters rather than one large heater. That 500w heater could cook the crap out of your tank if the thermostat fails. I cooked two tanks this way in the 90s, and now I always use two small heaters instead. Redundancy will save your behind long before fancy equipment will.

 

[R6REEFER]

Thanks for the insight. My phone is being screwy, I only posted it once, I hate the galaxy!! No my sump at max holds 47 gallons, operating it will be around 35 or so. That's why I'm buying the vectra because I can dial it down and use it on future builds plus the pump is just ridiculous, no other pump touches that technology. It will work in conjunction with my MP40's via reeflink. The heater was given to me as a Christmas present, it's a $400 heater so it will have to do for now. You have to consider the turnover of the 2 media reactors, skimmer, and uv steralizer as well. With the amount of head pressure I'm working with it will be quite simple to dial in that vectra.

 

[Myka]

You have to consider the turnover of the 2 media reactors, skimmer, and uv steralizer as well.

No, it doesn't work that way. Turnover in relation to display tank flow only counts the flow within the display. Most people only count powerheads. Some people count the return too. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and counted the return.

 

[R6REEFER]

The turnover rate is the sum of all moving water in the aquarium. Any piece of equipment that moves water plays into the total turnover. I was calculating the complete system turnover. Yes if you're counting just display it will be significantly less. If that is the case I'm sure Ocean Direct will do just fine. I'd just like to hear from someone who uses it.

 

[Russ265]

when i think of turnover, i think from the DT to the sump and back to the DT. (think of a dying car needing to do 1 turnover) so i dont think the first answer was wrong.

total flow is what i think of, when someone is talking about inside the DT.

to the op. mp40s will be fine and shouldnt cause you any grief with sand. i use them on my 265 and have sugar sand as well. worst case is you turn them down a notch-which may not be a bad thing.

 

[Myka]

The turnover rate is the sum of all moving water in the aquarium. Any piece of equipment that moves water plays into the total turnover. I was calculating the complete system turnover. Yes if you're counting just display it will be significantly less. If that is the case I'm sure Ocean Direct will do just fine. I'd just like to hear from someone who uses it.

In my 22 years of reef keeping I've never heard of anyone counting sump equipment in total turnover - you're a first. Learn something new I guess. Lol. You were asking about the turnover rate affecting the sand though - one would assume you meant display tank turnover. Please tell me why the turnover through your skimmer or reactor would affect your sand?

I have several clients with Ocean Direct sand in their systems (I hate this sand). These particular tanks are all 48" tanks (and some BioCubes). One tank has a single MP40 on at 50% and it does create hollows in the sand, but no sandstorm. The others have Tunzes and because you can direct Tunzes they don't move the sand around at all even though they have more flow.

 

[R6REEFER]

Search forums for total system turnover, it includes sump equipment. You're trying to get smart with me when all I was asking was does the TOTAL TURNOVER RATE effect the sand or just the DISPLAY TURNOVER RATE? We've already established the difference between the two but as I've said, this is my first sump which led me to the question in the first place. No need to be a smarta$$ about it.

 

[R6REEFER]

Thanks Russ265, I've done quite a bit of reading on the 6' 125 and from what I gather two MP40's will be more than enough just got to dial em down a bit. What sand do you use? Any pics or criticism?

 

[Russ265]

Thanks Russ265, I've done quite a bit of reading on the 6' 125 and from what I gather two MP40's will be more than enough just got to dial em down a bit. What sand do you use? Any pics or criticism?

crystal reef dolomite sand from ebay.
its guaranteed to stay white which is cool cuz i just rinse any i vacuum in to my sock and back to normal.

it is wet sand so take in to consideration the price per lbs.

rinse the crap out of it or you will curse yourself for ever purchasing it.

as far as turnover and flow and all that jazz. the water from the sump is shot out through your returns adding some "flow". i know because i have a dolphin diamond amp master 6250 (6250 gph) pump. so i wouldnt discount it.

 

[Myka]

all I was asking was does the TOTAL TURNOVER RATE effect the sand or just the DISPLAY TURNOVER RATE?

Well why didn't you just say that then? The answer is no to this question.

(Btw, I haven't been smart, I have you very thorough answers with personal experience. You're welcome.)

 

[787will]

I would have to agree and say TURNOVER rate is referred to as flow from display to sump and back to display and should be roughly 3-5 system volume per hour. So in my 125g i had roughly 400-500gph turnover. Keep your skimmer in mind when figuring out the best turnover for your system.

Everything else, IMHO is system FLOW. I would say 100x is good for SPS dominant. I would also agree from experience the 2x MP40s is not enough in a 6ft tank for SPS. You would be much better off with either at least 3 MP40s or 2 MP60s.

 

[787will]

all I was asking was does the TOTAL TURNOVER RATE effect the sand or just the DISPLAY TURNOVER RATE?

to answer in your context, only the display will and with the sand you have chosen, i think you could see some kick up.

 

[Harse Designs]

i think its depend on the sump setup but the more importantly your power heads should be were the focus at

 

[R6REEFER]

So pink Fiji would probably be a bit better in terms of stability? I've only ever used black Hawaiian, never going to use that stuff again...

 

[Myka]

So pink Fiji would probably be a bit better in terms of stability?

Fiji Pink would be better than Ocean Direct as far as sandstorms go.

I prefer a coarser sand for a SPS tank as I have over 100x turnover in the display tank just including powerheads once the tanks grow in. My preference is actually bare-bottom for SPS tanks, but I have Seaflor Special grade in my own current tank. The Super Reef grade is also a nice coarser sand that I actually prefer because it is a range of particle sizes and looks nice and natural. The Seaflor Special is so uniform that to my eye it doesn't look natural. Fwiw, I also vacuum my sand on every water change which is one of the reasons I don't like the fine sand - coarser is easier to vacuum.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

I would have to agree and say TURNOVER rate is referred to as flow from display to sump and back to display and should be roughly 3-5 system volume per hour. So in my 125g i had roughly 400-500gph turnover. Keep your skimmer in mind when figuring out the best turnover for your system.

Everything else, IMHO is system FLOW. I would say 100x is good for SPS dominant. I would also agree from experience the 2x MP40s is not enough in a 6ft tank for SPS. You would be much better off with either at least 3 MP40s or 2 MP60s.

I have a 6 foot tank and agree with this,BUT I would say just get a Gyre 150. Its the best $300 I have spent on my tank.

 

[ilovereefing <3]

I am not sure if it is comparable to the Ocean Direct sand you are considering, but I used the Nature's Ocean sugar fine sand. At first, I absolutely hated this sand (except for it's beauty), because my Gyre 150 blew it all over my tank. However, as my sand has aged and become coated in bacteria, that has all but stopped and I am able to slowly crank up the power on the Gyre. I am currently at 70% and though there is a little movement in the sand, it is not blowing all over the tank anymore. I don't mind the movement of the sand as it sort of recreates what happens on the ocean floor as well.

 

[R6REEFER]

That sounds good because I am looking for most aesthetically pleasing sand. What size tank are you using it in?

 

[R6REEFER]

That's what my choice came down to, Mp40 or Gyre. I'm all about the latest technology and automating my tank so I had to go with Ecotech. Gyre is just too plane Jane. Eventually everything is going to be ran through an Apex.