2,000 gallon set up

[ycnibrc]

Google aqualogic inline heater. They make titanium inline heater up to 3000w.

 

[AlexG]

Google aqualogic inline heater. They make titanium inline heater up to 3000w.

I did look at these when I was trying to find heating solutions for my system. I decided against a unit like this though because of the high costs to purchase and operate. A dedicated electrical circuit would also be needed for a heater like this as the smallest titanium model available on 115v has a power draw of 13amps. This is definitely an option for heating large tanks but I still think a solution that uses natural gas over electricity is the way to go.

 

[Brew12]

Most heat pumps are good down to around 28 degrees F. Lower and there just isn't enough heat in the air. Some of the mini splits claim to be able to work much lower. I am not sure if the variable speed compressors make this possible or not. I don't generally like mini splits since the materials used are pretty marginal.

I have a dual fuel HVAC system with a variable speed compressor. Both the HVAC installer and our local utility said that once it gets below 40F the natural gas becomes much more efficient at heating than a heat pump. My system disables the heat pump and goes gas only at 40F so I believe the OP is on track wanting a natural gas system for efficiency.

 

[CoralCache]

You have to wonder how much heat will be needed for a tank this size?
I believe I built 4 ton heat pumps for 2000 gallons that basically sit outside. They are in a non heated warehouse where the doors stay at least partially open most days. If this is inside the Temperature he will need to make up is not as great.

 

[TonyNguyen]

Wow that is a beast of a tank! Following on your heating issue.

 

[Kyle Dawson]

Thanks everyone for the input. I checked out the videos and im impressed. I did have some questions if you guys could answer for me. 1. With trying to run 2x 2000 gallon aquariums should i use an additional water heater? 2. I have center overflows, so I will use a sump and need a return pump. Would I need a dedicated circuit for each tank? I need to let the builder know soon how many outlets I want. 3. Could I plumb everything in my sump under my tank? If so do I need to break my concrete foundation to run any lines?

Thank you for everyones input it is much appreciated.

 

[Kyle Dawson]

My system totals ~1600 gallons and I use a PEX heating loop off of the natural gas hot water heater in my home. I have made a few videos about the heating setup I am using which can be found here: I find that this system has been working well and definitely saves a lot of $$$ compared to electric heating.

I decided to go the natural gas route. I watched a few of your videos...very impressive set up. Could you show me how you got your hot water back over to your tanks? I have a finished basement and wanted to come from the floor. Thanks again for sharing the video and everyone else's suggestions.

 

[CoralCache]

I might keep the heat exchanger near the hot water heater and use an aquarium pump to move saltwater from the tank to the exchanger and back.
Tough decision. In a failure would you want a couple hundred gallons of saltwater spilled or an endless supply of tap water spilled? The later possibly ruining your floor/furniture and contaminating your tank.

 

[AlexG]

I decided to go the natural gas route. I watched a few of your videos...very impressive set up. Could you show me how you got your hot water back over to your tanks? I have a finished basement and wanted to come from the floor. Thanks again for sharing the video and everyone else's suggestions.

I have attached a diagram of my heating loop. As long as you have a hot water supply line and access to the hot water heater drain valve the loop can be completed. If you watch the video below starting at 4 minutes 30 seconds I walk through the loop plumbing that is in place. For your electrical circuit question if you want 2x2000 gallon tanks then I would have a minimum of 4 x 20 amp circuits installed with GFCI (AFCI optioonal). I have 2 x 20 amp circuits installed for my 1600 gallon system. As for outlets I would put them everywhere you think they might be needed as extras never hurt. Also if you can locate the outlets above the water line of the aquarium if you can to reduce the possibility of water splashing into electrical outlets. If you don't already have it in the plans a generator transfer switch for the whole house or a sub panel for critical equipment should be installed along with having a standby generator available. As for plumbing and the need to break concrete that all depends on your design. Personally I would not want aquarium plumbing that is inaccessible. If you run through the floor I would find out if they can install a concrete channel with access panels and a drain so you never loose access to the plumbing pipes. If you have a leak under a concrete floor without access to the pipes there is only one solution to fix it and that it tearing up the floor to gain access to the leaking or broken pipes.

What are your plans for humidity control?

I wanted to address the concern that @CoralCache had about failures. I choose to leave the tank water in the system rather than pump it into a heat exchanger in part because I feel in my situation it increases the level of risk and would also require another water pump to be added to the system unless it was plumbed into the main return which require some bypass plumbing to be installed. If the aquarium water is pumped out of the system it could leak at the heat exchanger or if the heat exchanger fails internally it could introduce hot water into your aquarium directly. Both unlikely scenarios but they are possible. With the pex loop connections could fail or a split or a cut could take place. resulting in a flood. Unless a fitting connection is located over the aquarium were to fail or a split occurs in the sump tank the aquarium should not be impacted. I only have tow fitting connections on my pex loop in the fish room for the re-circulation pump and they are not located directly over the aquarium. I think the risk of leaks on titanium heat exchangers and pex is relatively low as long as the plumbing is properly installed. Lets not forget anytime we have a large volume of saltwater in once place that a leak or flood can be devastating. This is part why my basement will remain unfinished.

 

[DBR_Reef]

I have attached a diagram of my heating loop.

Just one or 2 suggestions as you build your system that differ from this slightly.
I would return the water from the heat exchange to the cold water supply, not the drain- it is just as easy, looks more professional, and allows the heater to function as intended. I don't believe any real problems would arise with connecting it to the drain, but it might not let particulates settle out in your HW tank, and you are injecting cold water where it was not designed, which might affect efficiency.

I would use titanium as I mentioned before- to me the risk of bacterial growth is just too large with a long length of pex.

I would use 2 temperature controllers instead of one- yes, the ranco controllers are very reliable, but accidentally pull the probe out of the water and you will cook your tank.

BTW- the covered channels are an excellent suggestion. Any saltwater plumbing that is inaccessible just seems like a bad idea.

 

[AlexG]

Just one or 2 suggestions as you build your system that differ from this slightly.
I would return the water from the heat exchange to the cold water supply, not the drain- it is just as easy, looks more professional, and allows the heater to function as intended. I don't believe any real problems would arise with connecting it to the drain, but it might not let particulates settle out in your HW tank, and you are injecting cold water where it was not designed, which might affect efficiency.

I would use titanium as I mentioned before- to me the risk of bacterial growth is just too large with a long length of pex.

I would use 2 temperature controllers instead of one- yes, the ranco controllers are very reliable, but accidentally pull the probe out of the water and you will cook your tank.

BTW- the covered channels are an excellent suggestion. Any saltwater plumbing that is inaccessible just seems like a bad idea.

I did forget to mention a backup temp controller. I am using my apex as the backup to power down the outlet in case of an over heat starts to occur. At least in my case the temp probe can't fall out and is secured but i can see that being an issue depending on where the temp probe is located. This is a great discussion.

 

[CoralCache]

I haven't had a chance to look at the other videos yet but from issues in the past here is a note..
I built and installed a heat pump chiller that was thankfully on a fish holding system and not corals but I got a call in the winter saying the condensor had ice on it. I drove the hour in a rush forgetting many needed tools since it was extremely cold that day and I had to get this thing running. So I found the system low on refrigerant. I was unable to find a leak so I topped it off and said I would come back and find the leak over the weekend. (This is a friends system) So he calls me before the weekend and says it is frozen again. Then he kept having fish issues due to high ammonia. Long story short the pre manufactured titanium coil had a parallel crack and was leaking refrigerant and oil into the system.

One way or another the tap water and saltwater have to cross each other. Not likely to have a failure I am with you but Murphy is not on my side and I do my best to plan for the worst.

 

[AlexG]

I haven't had a chance to look at the other videos yet but from issues in the past here is a note..
I built and installed a heat pump chiller that was thankfully on a fish holding system and not corals but I got a call in the winter saying the condensor had ice on it. I drove the hour in a rush forgetting many needed tools since it was extremely cold that day and I had to get this thing running. So I found the system low on refrigerant. I was unable to find a leak so I topped it off and said I would come back and find the leak over the weekend. (This is a friends system) So he calls me before the weekend and says it is frozen again. Then he kept having fish issues due to high ammonia. Long story short the pre manufactured titanium coil had a parallel crack and was leaking refrigerant and oil into the system.

One way or another the tap water and saltwater have to cross each other. Not likely to have a failure I am with you but Murphy is not on my side and I do my best to plan for the worst.

Yea Murphy always like to show up when you least expect it.

That really is unfortunate that the coil cracked. My big hang up with titanium is that I don't know much about its grading or the quality used for heat exchangers and coils. If there are different grades of titanium what is the difference between each grade? If they are using a titanium alloy to make heat exchangers and coils what other materials are being mixed into the metal and can any of them leach out in the aquarium? I honestly don't know the answers to these questions.

Unfortunately the tap and the aquarium water do have to cross paths for radiant heating and it does carry a risk. I still feel though that the risk of using a radiant heating system titanium or PEX is far lower than the risks associated with using electric heaters where water and electricity have to cross paths for a heat exchange.

 

[CoralCache]

Absolutely Alex. I am with you.

I have built 30 or 40 chillers with titanium heat exchangers from S & W Wilson over the last 15 years or so. I have never seen a coil discolor or have any other issues besides the one that cracked. I have not run acrossed any mysterious deaths on tanks with them either.
That company is a pain to order from but it has always worked out. Mostly a language barrier and if I recall you have to send a check. I personally haven't ordered one in a couple years but friends have. I will get a link to what I use.

 

[CoralCache]

http://www.swwilson.com/cooling_system

I use the top one called Titanium Chiller Barrell.

My thought would be run the hot water through the titanium and saltwater through the pvc. I am not sure how much heat the seals are rated for though.
I didn't see in the video yet but will you use a mixing valve with a bypass? So many ways you could do this. My controls background has my head spinning with what could be done with a proportional actuator and a mixing valve. A temperature reset according to how far the temperature is from setpoint.
Also do not use the temperature port on chiller barrells. They test the water in the barrell and should be testing the inlet before the barrell/tank temp.

 

[DBR_Reef]

Absolutely Alex. I am with you.

I have built 30 or 40 chillers with titanium heat exchangers from S & W Wilson over the last 15 years or so. I have never seen a coil discolor or have any other issues besides the one that cracked. I have not run acrossed any mysterious deaths on tanks with them either.

I wonder what caused the crack- did you get water into it somehow that froze in the coil?

 

[AlexG]

http://www.swwilson.com/cooling_system

I use the top one called Titanium Chiller Barrell.

My thought would be run the hot water through the titanium and saltwater through the pvc. I am not sure how much heat the seals are rated for though.
I didn't see in the video yet but will you use a mixing valve with a bypass? So many ways you could do this. My controls background has my head spinning with what could be done with a proportional actuator and a mixing valve. A temperature reset according to how far the temperature is from setpoint.
Also do not use the temperature port on chiller barrells. They test the water in the barrell and should be testing the inlet before the barrell/tank temp.

I know they make mixing valves to maintain a temperature. I have seen larger freshwater setups using them to help automate water changes. Are you thinking of using a mixing valve to control the temp of the hot water entering the chiller barrel or are you looking to use a mixing valve with the saltwater being heated in the chiller barrel?

 

[CoralCache]

Dbr I am not sure exactly how it cracked. Could have happened during installation or I want to say this was a coil my buddy got from someone used. Could have happened prior to us getting it. No way to tell exactly. Freezing could happen but for it to crack the titanium and not the pvc leads me to think that didn't happen but you never know. Strange things happen.

Alex my first thought would be to always run salwater through the barrell. A mixing valve that would do saltwater would be way too expensive I would think.
On another note if you wanted to save power you could run a dc pump and slow it down when there is no call for heating. Ramp it up when heat is needed. Or even ramp it up according to how much heat is needed.