2 heaters with an Apex

[LA9899]

What is the best way to set up a double heater system for dependency with an apex unit.
I notice there is only one outlet for a heater. Can I put 2 heaters on this one outlet?

 

[TheHarold]

I’ve never heard of one outlet for a heater. Where did you read that?

 

[Ichthus1]

Use two separate outlets on the energy bar. You can change the outlet types in Fusion. Change the control type (seen in the picture) on one of the outlets you are not using to a heater outlet. (This prevents a failure if one outlet goes bad.) You can then set each outlet individually. I run three heaters in my system. The system uses two on a regular basis, but the third will come on, at about .3 degrees below the others, if one of the others fail or the temperature starts to fall because the house is suddenly very cold. Any two of the heaters are sufficient to heat the aquarium, but no one heater is capable of heating the aquarium to the point of killing everything by itself. This guards against a heater sticking on, which should be impossible with the Apex monitoring temperature. Hope this helps.

 

[LA9899]

I’ve never heard of one outlet for a heater. Where did you read that?

I was watching the Neptune video which shows outlet 4 pre set for a heater.

 

[LA9899]

Use two separate outlets on the energy bar. You can change the outlet types in Fusion. Change the control type (seen in the picture) on one of the outlets you are not using to a heater outlet. (This prevents a failure if one outlet goes bad.) You can then set each outlet individually. I run three heaters in my system. The system uses two on a regular basis, but the third will come on, at about .3 degrees below the others, if one of the others fail or the temperature starts to fall because the house is suddenly very cold. Any two of the heaters are sufficient to heat the aquarium, but no one heater is capable of heating the aquarium to the point of killing everything by itself. This guards against a heater sticking on, which should be impossible with the Apex monitoring temperature. Hope this helps.

Thank you for the info. On another note is it possible to put 2 heaters on one outlet with a Y connector. I might not have a spare outlet on the energy bar for 2 heaters.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Here is a paste from similar thread I responded to recently...


I have them come ON in stages so if 1st one comes on and doesn't keep up or fails the second one comes on, etc.

Heater 1

Fallback OFF
If Tmp < 77.5 Then ON
If Tmp > 77.7 Then OFF
If Tmp < 71.0 Then OFF
Defer 003:00 Then ON
Defer 003:00 Then OFF
If Output ReturnPump = OFF Then OFF

Heater 2

Fallback OFF
If Tmp < 77.3 Then ON
If Tmp > 77.7 Then OFF
If Tmp < 71.0 Then OFF
Defer 001:00 Then ON
Defer 003:00 Then OFF
If Output ReturnPump = OFF Then OFF

etc


They are also connected to different EBs on different circuits.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Can I put 2 heaters on this one outlet?

2 heaters plug into separate outlets, Heater1 and Heater2, If you have the older type of power strip (EB8) plug the heaters into either 1,2,3,5,6,7; these are TRIAC type and minimize possibility of "welding" the contacts.

For best redundancies, plug into 2 separate power strips on two separate circuits.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Thank you for the info. On another note is it possible to put 2 heaters on one outlet with a Y connector. I might not have a spare outlet on the energy bar for 2 heaters.

Depending on the size of those 2 heaters you might be exceeding the rating of each outlet, I believe each is rated at 5A with the whole strip rated at 15A.

 

[ihavecrabs]

I agree with Xoomercom's recommendations. Separate outlets for safety and staged on/off temps. This is how I run mine also.

May I also suggest another failsafe.. Set the heaters to turn off (with their internal thermometer) at 1 degree F higher than the apex turns off at. That way if for any reason the Apex fails on, your heater is set to only 1 degree F higher.

 

[TheHarold]

I was watching the Neptune video which shows outlet 4 pre set for a heater.

..... Each outlet is programmable. You can do whatever you like, the preset outlets are examples. You can run 8 dosing pumps, 8 heaters, whatever.

Some details that you probably dont need, but heres some history:

The only "specific" element on an Apex power bar was on the EB8 (black metal). Outlets 4 and 8 were the only outlets that could be used for low voltage devices such as dosing pumps, because they had mechanical relays while the other outlets were TRIACs.

On the eb832, EB4, etc all outlets are controlled by mechanical relays, so there are no differences between outlets.

 

[TheHarold]

I agree with Xoomercom's recommendations. Separate outlets for safety and staged on/off temps. This is how I run mine also.

May I also suggest another failsafe.. Set the heaters to turn off (with their internal thermometer) at 1 degree F higher than the apex turns off at. That way if for any reason the Apex fails on, your heater is set to only 1 degree F higher.

On both my tanks I have it done similarly, both heaters set at 78, the apex cuts power to the heater at 78.5 or below 50. <- Important.

It is worth noting that if a temperature probe fails, it almost always fails in a low condition. A failed probe typically reads 20.7*F. You could cook your tank unless you have the failsafe that "If temp <50 then off" on your heater!!!

 

[ihavecrabs]

On both my tanks I have it done similarly, both heaters set at 78, the apex cuts power to the heater at 78.5 or below 50. <- Important.

It is worth noting that if a temperature probe fails, it almost always fails in a low condition. A failed probe typically reads 20.7*F. You could cook your tank unless you have the failsafe that "If temp <50 then off" on your heater!!!

Cheers for that.. I'll make sure to set that also.

My pH probe went haywire too and it started reading in the 6's.. luckily it is my second one that I just added back in when I replaced it so I knew it was the probe itself.

I also have two heat probes as well for redundancy and to track temp of my tank vs sump where the temp probes reside.

 

[BZOFIQ]

On both my tanks I have it done similarly, both heaters set at 78, the apex cuts power to the heater at 78.5 or below 50. <- Important.

It is worth noting that if a temperature probe fails, it almost always fails in a low condition. A failed probe typically reads 20.7*F. You could cook your tank unless you have the failsafe that "If temp <50 then off" on your heater!!!

I'd bump it up from 50, the reason I have the following : If Tmp < 71.0 Then OFF

is because that covers both scenarios; the probe failing or somehow being pulled out of the water and measuring room temp.

 

[Dr. Reef Verified Sponsor]

to answer OP question. can 2 heaters be put on 1 outlet of eb8?

in short yes, there are outlet 4 and 8 rated for 10amps. so if you have 2 heaters less than 10 amp total then yes they can share the same outlet.
Is it recommended NO. i would not do that unless you had no choice. even then i wouldnt exceed 6 amp total on 2 heaters placed on 1 x 10amp outlet.

 

[TheHarold]

I'd bump it up from 50, the reason I have the following : If Tmp < 71.0 Then OFF

is because that covers both scenarios; the probe failing or somehow being pulled out of the water and measuring room temp.

Good point- although if you live somewhere cold and have an undersized heater, you don’t want it stopping if the tank gets to 71. (Given that many people run their tank in the 70’s). Granted, for most people that would work.

 

[Ross Petersen]

Here is a paste from similar thread I responded to recently...


I have them come ON in stages so if 1st one comes on and doesn't keep up or fails the second one comes on, etc.

Heater 1

Fallback OFF
If Tmp < 77.5 Then ON
If Tmp > 77.7 Then OFF
If Tmp < 71.0 Then OFF
Defer 003:00 Then ON
Defer 003:00 Then OFF
If Output ReturnPump = OFF Then OFF

Heater 2

Fallback OFF
If Tmp < 77.3 Then ON
If Tmp > 77.7 Then OFF
If Tmp < 71.0 Then OFF
Defer 001:00 Then ON
Defer 003:00 Then OFF
If Output ReturnPump = OFF Then OFF

etc


They are also connected to different EBs on different circuits.

Old thread here... can you explain to a newbie what the "defer 003:00 Then ON" achieves? I gather it's an intentional lag of sorts... but for what?

 

[TheHarold]

Old thread here... can you explain to a newbie what the "defer 003:00 Then ON" achieves? I gather it's an intentional lag of sorts... but for what?

that means “Wait three minutes before turning on”.

for example if you have a float switch, it will be bouncing open and closed state several times when it is “on the edge”.

You don’t want the device to flicker, so you make it wait three minutes of a continuous trigger (float switch open or closed for 3 minutes) before turning on.


another technical term for Defer would be “debounce”, which is self explanatory. Prevent it from bouncing from state to state. The trigger must be on or off for X time before the outlet will change.

 

[Bruce60]

Here is a paste from similar thread I responded to recently...


I have them come ON in stages so if 1st one comes on and doesn't keep up or fails the second one comes on, etc.

Heater 1

Fallback OFF
If Tmp < 77.5 Then ON
If Tmp > 77.7 Then OFF
If Tmp < 71.0 Then OFF
Defer 003:00 Then ON
Defer 003:00 Then OFF
If Output ReturnPump = OFF Then OFF

Heater 2

Fallback OFF
If Tmp < 77.3 Then ON
If Tmp > 77.7 Then OFF
If Tmp < 71.0 Then OFF
Defer 001:00 Then ON
Defer 003:00 Then OFF
If Output ReturnPump = OFF Then OFF

etc


They are also connected to different EBs on different circuits.

I am guessing that the If Tmp < 71.0 Then OFF is in case the heater ends up in air? Otherwise not sure of reason for this line of code.

 

[Amado]

As per Neptune you shouldn’t connect your heater to a eb8. The constant on and off will kill your eb8. They say you should use a heater controller and then connect that controller to the apex eb8. The constant on and off is not good for the eb8

 

[AdamNC]

Never heard that before. Been using a heater in the same EB8 plug #4 for the past 6 years. I have a tank with 2 heaters on an EB832 and 1 tank with a heater on an EB8 plug #4.