2 new fish ich in DT

[Miami Reef]

I’m going to put this out here before anyone asks: I don’t have a quarantine tank, and I never quarantined anything in my life. I use sea water for my water changes too.

I have about 16 fish in my 300 gallon tank. I have about 6 that are new additions but 2 of them have ich-blue tang and powder brown tang. They both eat and have no symptoms, besides for white spots on fins and body.

I tried adding new fish lately and I have had a low success rate. I lost a blue tang, convict tang, 2 wrasses, and a Naso Tang. What survived were 2 powder Browns, a blue tang, scopas tang.

I can’t dose copper in DT because of corals, and it’s impossible to catch the fish without destroying the rock scape.

I don’t have a QT tank that’s set up, and by the time the ammonia gets cycled, I’m afraid it’ll be too late.

What do you recommend me do? Please don’t judge for not quarantining, I’m learning my lesson now and I’m highly considering starting from now on.

 

[HotRocks]

I’m going to put this out here before anyone asks: I don’t have a quarantine tank, and I never quarantined anything in my life. I use sea water for my water changes too.

I have about 16 fish in my 300 gallon tank. I have about 6 that are new additions but 2 of them have ich-blue tang and powder brown tang. They both eat and have no symptoms, besides for white spots on fins and body.

I tried adding new fish lately and I have had a low success rate. I lost a blue tang, convict tang, 2 wrasses, and a Naso Tang. What survived were 2 powder Browns, a blue tang, scopas tang.

I can’t dose copper in DT because of corals, and it’s impossible to catch the fish without destroying the rock scape.

I don’t have a QT tank that’s set up, and by the time the ammonia gets cycled, I’m afraid it’ll be too late.

What do you recommend me do? Please don’t judge for not quarantining, I’m learning my lesson now and I’m highly considering starting from now on.

No judgement here.

Honestly though I don't have an answer you want to hear. The best thing to do is tear the tank down to get the fish out if you can't trap all of the fish and treat them all with copper. Allow the DT to be fallow (fishless for 76 days) while fish are in QT. Then QT all future additions. It's not surprising that the acanthurus tangs are showing symptoms, they are very ich prone due to the thin slime coat.

Sorry to hear of your struggles. QT is the way to go IMO.

 

[Miami Reef]

How do I cycle it? The ammonia is going to kill them.

Also, I’m genuinely curious (not trying to debunk your advice) why do people quarantine for ich if the water will always have ich in it? I did mention that I use seawater, and ich will never be eradicated from my system. Won’t they just get ich once they are in the DT after quarantine?

 

[HotRocks]

I have very good luck using biospira. Using sponge media in a HOB. Tank is usually cycled with 3 or so days. With a light bioload the ammonia is never an issue.

What size tank are you thinking about? I'd say you need at least a 55. Maybe a couple tanks to get through this initial phase.

What other fish do you have and how large?

 

[Miami Reef]

Another new fish just died (not the one with ich.)

 

[Miami Reef]

I have sailfin, 2 powder brown, scopas, 2 Anthias, 4 clownfish, blue tang, and 6 line wrasse, sandsifting goby.

 

[Miami Reef]

Can someone please answer my question from above?

why do people quarantine for ich if the water will always have ich in it? I did mention that I use seawater, and ich will never be eradicated from my system. Won’t they just get ich once they are in the DT after quarantine?

 

[jsvand5]

How do I cycle it? The ammonia is going to kill them.

Also, I’m genuinely curious (not trying to debunk your advice) why do people quarantine for ich if the water will always have ich in it? I did mention that I use seawater, and ich will never be eradicated from my system. Won’t they just get ich once they are in the DT after quarantine?

Not sure what advice you want? The only solution is to treat the fish in QT. Aside from that you may be ok just not buying ich prone fish anymore once the current ones either die or build up an immunity.
It’s also not impossible to rid your tank of Ich even if using natural sea water.

 

[ReefQueen]

Can someone please answer my question from above?

The water will not always have ich in it, they need a host to survive, that is why you have to treat the fish in QT and run the tank fallow for 76 days. It will take that long for the ich to run through its lifecycle and die off.

 

[SteveC]

It’s possible, that you could have a delivery of seawater that has Trophonts looking for a host. The time that they need to attach to a host is a matter of hours, but still possible. I used to use NSW and always let the new water “stand” for about a week before using it.

 

[HotRocks]

I'm sorry I missed the natural seawater part. If you are collecting the water yourself, in theory you just need to hold it for 16 days after collection before putting it in your tank to make sure it was parasite free.

Free swimming stage of ich can only live for a couple days without a host. Free swimming stage of velvet can live for up to 16 days without a host.

Something I don't know is if the water was collected on a rough day and you drew up some sand with the water could you collect a tomont that was viable and releasing free swimmers? If so the 16 day hold goes out the window... Concentration of parasites is far lower in the sea, but anything is possible I guess.

@4FordFamily @Humblefish Thoughts here?

 

[4FordFamily]

I'm sorry I missed the natural seawater part. If you are collecting the water yourself, in theory you just need to hold it for 16 days after collection before putting it in your tank to make sure it was parasite free.

Free swimming stage of ich can only live for a couple days without a host. Free swimming stage of velvet can live for up to 16 days without a host.

Something I don't know is if the water was collected on a rough day and you drew up some sand with the water could you collect a tomont that was viable and releasing free swimmers? If so the 16 day hold goes out the window... Concentration of parasites is far lower in the sea, but anything is possible I guess.

@4FordFamily @Humblefish Thoughts here?

I agree with this, I’d be more worried about adding other contaminants, personally.

 

[SDK]

Going forward, if you are only going to keep a QT tank running on an as needed basis, tuck a small mesh bag of Matrix in your DT sump.

You can put this in the QT HOB along with your Bio Spira when you set it up and have an instantly matured filter. Then start a new bag in the DT for the next time. You don’t want to move the bags back after they have been exposed to the copper in the QT.

Good luck getting them sorted out....

 

[Billldg]

How do I cycle it? The ammonia is going to kill them.

Also, I’m genuinely curious (not trying to debunk your advice) why do people quarantine for ich if the water will always have ich in it? I did mention that I use seawater, and ich will never be eradicated from my system. Won’t they just get ich once they are in the DT after quarantine?

Agree with @HotRocks, no judgement here, we r here to help each other.

Also agree with @ReefQueen, the water can be ick free, that's were a fallow period comes into play if ick has been introduced into your DT. This is were QT'ing your fish and other inhabitants comes into play. If done right a tank can always be ick free.

Good luck, hopefully everything works out in your favor.

 

[Miami Reef]

Hey guys thank you so much for your responses!

I made a different thread on how to catch the fish, and some people are saying to just feed well and let it take it’s course: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/catching-all-my-fish-in-300-gallon-reef-tank.560977/#post-5750685

I’m honestly really confused and don’t know. I was preparing myself to qt and treat them with copper, but will it go away on it’s own? I’m sorry for going back and fourth. I’m willing to treat them with copper, I just want to know what you think about the suggestions I’m getting on just leaving the fish there.

 

[Brett newell]

The feeding heavy is a bandaid at best. You wouldnt believe the people on some facebook pages that treat ich like the flu, not a parasite. Lots of bad information out there. Garlic is not a treatment

Anyway, how much coral is in the tank? You could attempt to remove coral and try to run hypo salinity. That treatment doesnt always work though. There are plenty of hypo resistant strains, but that's a route you could take that wouldn't involve removing fish.

 

[Biocube32]

I just want to throw this hat in the ring, but if somehow you are able to get your tank fishless and let it remain fallow to eliminate the ich for good, i still think you could use natural seawater for changes and have an ich free system. Couldnt you use a super heavy duty UV sterilizer on the water you are about to put in the tank? Let it circulate and sterilize for several days and whatnot to kill everything? Then as a coup de grace to parasites after sterilizing in circulation for several days, you could run all water that goes into your DT directly through an in-line sterilizer as you are adding it to the DT just to make double sure all ich is gone (vs instead of just dumping it in). Either that or just stop keeping ich susceptible species.

Maybe someone who has more natural seawater experience than me could chime in

 

[HotRocks]

Hey guys thank you so much for your responses!

I made a different thread on how to catch the fish, and some people are saying to just feed well and let it take it’s course: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/catching-all-my-fish-in-300-gallon-reef-tank.560977/#post-5750685

I’m honestly really confused and don’t know. I was preparing myself to qt and treat them with copper, but will it go away on it’s own? I’m sorry for going back and fourth. I’m willing to treat them with copper, I just want to know what you think about the suggestions I’m getting on just leaving the fish there.

Some people prefer ich management. Personally I am pro QT and much rather have a disease free DT.

I think on one of your other threads I saw you have acanthurus tangs. They are a fish that is much more difficult to keep in an ich management tank. Also you thought it may be velvet. Feeding velvet away is very unlikely.

There are other components to ich management that are very important. Such as a UV, diatom filter, oxydators, etc.

This may be a good read for you:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-eradication-vs-ich-management.188775/