2-part, ATI essentials, triton, balling etc..

[Davy Jones]

Starting a new tank soon and would like to hear everyones thoughts and see what you would do if you had a choice to start from the beginning!


Here is what i am currently considering, keep in mind it will be a mixed reef of 125 gallons or so. More lps/softies than sps but there will still be some sps in the tank. Large skimmer and ATS will be on this reef for nutrient reduction.

ESV-B ionic/BRS 2 part
ATI essentials
Red sea balling (3 part)

I am also open to other suggestions, I however do not want to run a ULNS tank or run Kalk (just personal preference)

Ill open a poll and ask for votes! I would love experiences and pictures if you are using any of these or what you suggest!

Thanks everyone!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

FWIW, these products do different things with different claims, so its not necessarily a perfect comparison.

BRS two part supplements calcium and alkalinity and magnesium, but is not perfectly balanced with respect to minor or trace elements. It does not supply substantial amounts of potassium, etc. It may actually cause a decline in these.

ESV two part supplements calcium and alkalinity and magnesium, and claims to be perfectly balanced with respect to minor and trace elements. It does not "supplement" trace elements.

I'm not sure about Red Sea Balling (that isn't what they call it), but Tropic Marin Balling supplements calcium and alkalinity and magnesium, and claims to be perfectly balanced with respect to minor and trace elements. It does not "supplement" trace elements".

The Red Sea foundation and trace element mixes described in the poll will supplement supplement calcium and alkalinity and magnesium, and claims to supplement minor and trace elements.

ATI Essentials will supplement calcium and alkalinity and magnesium, and claims to supplement minor and trace elements.

 

[Davy Jones]

FWIW, these products do different things with different claims, so its not necessarily a perfect comparison.

BRS two part supplements calcium and alkalinity and magnesium, but is not perfectly balanced with respect to minor or trace elements. It does not supply substantial amounts of potassium, etc. It may actually cause a decline in these.

ESV two part supplements calcium and alkalinity and magnesium, and claims to be perfectly balanced with respect to minor and trace elements. It does not "supplement" trace elements.

I'm not sure about Red Sea Balling (that isn't what they call it), but Tropic Marin Balling supplements calcium and alkalinity and magnesium, and claims to be perfectly balanced with respect to minor and trace elements. It does not "supplement" trace elements".

The Red Sea foundation and trace element mixes described in the poll will supplement supplement calcium and alkalinity and magnesium, and claims to supplement minor and trace elements.

ATI Essentials will supplement calcium and alkalinity and magnesium, and claims to supplement minor and trace elements.

Thanks for the information Randy. Regardless of which route i take i still plan on doing atleast monthly waterchanges to some degree (Whether its needed or not, its one of those things that just makes me feel better) so even with just the basic 2 part systems i will add trace elements on some level during that. Alternatively i could also dose Red sea's trace elements (or another manufacturer) as need with the 2 part systems if that would be beneficial to my tank

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

All of these work, its just that some may benefit more from water changes (the BRS) or additional dosing (the ESV B-ionic).

 

[Davy Jones]

All of these work, its just that some may benefit more from water changes (the BRS) or additional dosing (the ESV B-ionic).

Thank you very much for you input!

 

[dragon99]

BRS two part supplements calcium and alkalinity and magnesium, but is not perfectly balanced with respect to minor or trace elements
ESV two part supplements calcium and alkalinity and magnesium, and claims to be perfectly balanced with respect to minor and trace elements.

Maybe I'm need an afternoon coffee, but what's the difference between those 2 things if neither is "supplementing" them?

 

[beaslbob]

I like the dr randy holmes-farley improved diy two part

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Maybe I'm need an afternoon coffee, but what's the difference between those 2 things if neither is "supplementing" them?

It's a subtle issue that most reefers don't pay attention to.

I'll give a potassium example.

All of these systems boost salinity. When the salinity is corrected back to normal, everything declines, including potassium.

The BRS materials add no potassium, so when everything is lowered, potassium declines and hits a lower value and stays there.

ESV B-ionic adds potassium, but just exactly enough to offset the drop in salinity. So after the salinity correction, it is right back where it started.

If there is any actual consumption of potassium in either system, the potassium for the BRS drops even more, and the potassium for the ESV drops where it didn't before.

That's what I mean by ESV not "supplementing" potassium. It does not offset any consumption. Tropic Marin Balling is the same as ESV in this respect.

 

[Davy Jones]

It's a subtle issue that most reefers don't pay attention to.

I'll give a potassium example.

All of these systems boost salinity. When the salinity is corrected back to normal, everything declines, including potassium.

The BRS materials add no potassium, so when everything is lowered, potassium declines and hits a lower value and stays there.

ESV B-ionic adds potassium, but just exactly enough to offset the drop in salinity. So after the salinity correction, it is right back where it started.

If there is any actual consumption of potassium in either system, the potassium for the BRS drops even more, and the potassium for the ESV drops where it didn't before.

That's what I mean by ESV not "supplementing" potassium. It does not offset any consumption. Tropic Marin Balling is the same as ESV in this respect.

Do you recommend using the ICP testing offered by ATI and triton? Does it add value in your opinion? If so at what point would you do the test, right after the cycle is done? after a couple of months past setup? Or 0n an as needed basis when coral is not looking as it should?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Do you recommend using the ICP testing offered by ATI and triton? Does it add value in your opinion? If so at what point would you do the test, right after the cycle is done? after a couple of months past setup? Or 0n an as needed basis when coral is not looking as it should?

I think it can be useful, yes. But I would not bother until your tank had been running for a substantial period and has had a chance to become elevated or deficient in elements. New tanks mostly resemble the salt water used in them.

Here's a summary of what I concluded from my Triton test:

My Triton Testing Results: By Randy Holmes-Farley
http://www.reefedition.com/my-triton-testing-results-by-randy-holmes-farley/

 

[Davy Jones]

I think it can be useful, yes. But I would not bother until your tank had been running for a substantial period and has had a chance to become elevated or deficient in elements. New tanks mostly resemble the salt water used in them.

Here's a summary of what I concluded from my Triton test:

My Triton Testing Results: By Randy Holmes-Farley
http://www.reefedition.com/my-triton-testing-results-by-randy-holmes-farley/

Thanks for the read. Good info. I think based on that no matter which route i go ill have a test done at 3 months after cycle, at 9 months after cycle and based on the results do yearly tests or as needed if there are issues in the tank i cant explain

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thanks for the read. Good info. I think based on that no matter which route i go ill have a test done at 3 months after cycle, at 9 months after cycle and based on the results do yearly tests or as needed if there are issues in the tank i cant explain

Sounds like a fine plan.

 

[Davy Jones]

ATI and ESV are both tied, Keep the votes coming! If you are currently using either method and can give me your experiences that would be appreciated as well!!

 

[ACF930]

I’ve been using ATI Essentials and no water change for 6 months now. My mixed reef is happy and growing with decent coloration.

Pros: corals are thriving with no water change; easy to setup; affordable

Con: only a few vendors currently sell ATI Essentials in the U.S. (if it works for you then don’t hesitate to get the larger 1000ML bottles as backup)

Note: I recommend it if you are maintaining a low nutrient system because there is no more water change. Also, ATI recommends keeping your Alkalinity between 7-8 dkh for balance.

 

[Davy Jones]

I’ve been using ATI Essentials and no water change for 6 months now. My mixed reef is happy and growing with decent coloration.

Pros: corals are thriving with no water change; easy to setup; affordable

Con: only a few vendors currently sell ATI Essentials in the U.S. (if it works for you then don’t hesitate to get the larger 1000ML bottles as backup)

Note: I recommend it if you are maintaining a low nutrient system because there is no more water change. Also, ATI recommends keeping your Alkalinity between 7-8 dkh for balance.

Thanks for the info! I dont plan on the tank being ultra low nutrient unless the skimmer and ATS bring me there, and plan on doing a monthly waterchange anyways. more so for my piece of mind than the fact that its needed.

I do plan on keeping my alk around 8.2dkh if possible so thats not far off.

 

[Ento-Reefer]

I have been using ATI essentials on my new 180g. I like it and it has been easy to maintain my alk and calc. I followed the instructions and tested my alk everyday at the same time for the first week and adjusted the dosing amounts as needed. I started at 25ml of each and am up to 35 ml now about a month later. I will send in a test to ATI at the end of this month to see where my levels are for every thing I don’t test for. I am happy with the growth I am seeing thus far, but it is early days and I am still stocking my tank. You can check out my build thread and here is my April FTS.

 

[KJoFan]

I don't think there's any one right answer here. I have the same struggle with deciding what's 'best' though as well. I'm currently going the Aquaforest route. Using their pre-mixed Components 1-3 along with their bacterial nutrient control methods (Life Biofil, NP-Pro and Pro Bio S, along with some siporax) and have no complaints. I am contemplating ditching the bacterial nutrient control for a traditional chaeto/fuge setup but am not fully committed to the switch. I may also plan to switch to their strong components and mix my own down the line as a more economical solution.

That said, I do have a set of ATI Essentials I purchased before Christmas that I have yet to use. So, in a long winded, roundabout way, if I were to pick from the ones you listed, I'd go with ATI. For no reason other than it looks like a solid/somewhat economical choice.

 

[spartanman22]

I used to always use the BRS 2-part (close to 10 years) and it always worked well for me regardless of tank size. I recently switched to AquaForest’s premixed 3 component system, along with their magnesium plus, pro-bio s, NP Pro, and AF Amino’s. I have been getting some pretty good coloration lately, but hard to say if that’s due to AquaForest products or better husbandry, tank maturation, etc. However I have not noticed any difference in growth rates from BRS.

 

[Davy Jones]

I have been using ATI essentials on my new 180g. I like it and it has been easy to maintain my alk and calc. I followed the instructions and tested my alk everyday at the same time for the first week and adjusted the dosing amounts as needed. I started at 25ml of each and am up to 35 ml now about a month later. I will send in a test to ATI at the end of this month to see where my levels are for every thing I don’t test for. I am happy with the growth I am seeing thus far, but it is early days and I am still stocking my tank. You can check out my build thread and here is my April FTS.

Have you been able to dose all 3 parts in equal amounts without things being out of whack?

I don't think there's any one right answer here. I have the same struggle with deciding what's 'best' though as well. I'm currently going the Aquaforest route. Using their pre-mixed Components 1-3 along with their bacterial nutrient control methods (Life Biofil, NP-Pro and Pro Bio S, along with some siporax) and have no complaints. I am contemplating ditching the bacterial nutrient control for a traditional chaeto/fuge setup but am not fully committed to the switch. I may also plan to switch to their strong components and mix my own down the line as a more economical solution.

That said, I do have a set of ATI Essentials I purchased before Christmas that I have yet to use. So, in a long winded, roundabout way, if I were to pick from the ones you listed, I'd go with ATI. For no reason other than it looks like a solid/somewhat economical choice.

I tried the aquaforrest stuff for a while and although i did get some nice colors on a couple of pieces in the end i also had this weird bacterial build up in the sump and plumbing for my tank and ended up not continuing with the program. My zoas and ricordea did not like the program either so that helped sway me away from that.

I used to always use the BRS 2-part (close to 10 years) and it always worked well for me regardless of tank size. I recently switched to AquaForest’s premixed 3 component system, along with their magnesium plus, pro-bio s, NP Pro, and AF Amino’s. I have been getting some pretty good coloration lately, but hard to say if that’s due to AquaForest products or better husbandry, tank maturation, etc. However I have not noticed any difference in growth rates from BRS.

I am sure the aquaforest is bringing better colors, it seemed like it did for me when i used it as well. Over all however the growth for me stalled and many non sps items started regressing so i quit their program.

To me its down to either just doing 2 part or the ATI essentials at this point. My only concern with going the ATI route is i will have to buy another Apex dos to have enough heads.. :/

 

[Ento-Reefer]

Have you been able to dose all 3 parts in equal amounts without things being out of whack?

Yes for alk, calc, and mag. I don’t know about the minor and trace elements which are also in part 3 because I have not sent my water sample in yet. I am using the coral box WiFi doser and I have been happy with it thus far. I looked at the apex dos, but they are pricey and huge lol.