2 weeks away from tank in cycling process

[Fredrik Andersson]

Today it is 3 w since I started the cycling process in my 25g tank. During these 3 w I've tested for nitrite and have never seen any trace of it. After discussions here)) I think it because I've used LR from an established tank.

But the last week I've seen that the phosphate is around 1 ppm. My plan is to fix this by water changes and phosphate remover after the cycling is completed (like after 3 more weeks tot. 6 weeks)

In one week from now (w5 in the cycling process) I will go on a 2 weeks trip. I got a friend who will refill the the tank with R/O water and also check the salt - 1.025 during my trip.

My question is, theupcoming seven days before I go on the trip, should I buy any kind of other tests and test before I leave?

Here is my schedule for the cycling process:
Day 1: Saltlevel 1.025 temp, +25C added LR and started the process:
W1: Saltlevel 1.025 temp, +25C no Nitrite no Phosphate
W2: Saltlevel 1.025 temp, +25C no Nitrite no Phosphate
W3 (today): Saltlevel 1.025 temp, +25C no Nitrite, 1ppm Phosphate
--------------------
w4: Keep 1.025 salt, temp +25C and nitrate 0, and continue checking the phosphate, during this week should I test for anything more?
w5-w6: Away on my trip and a friend will check saltlevel and water.

Thanks!

 

[sbash]

Maybe I haven't had enough coffee, but I do not see any mention of testing for ammonia!?

Did you add anything to 'kick off'' the cycling process? (food, shrimp, straight ammonia, etc)...

 

[Fredrik Andersson]

Nope no testing of ammonia or adding anything to "kick off" the cycling process. The guy in the store said that the live rock should start the cycling process. The dead materia on the rocks would be the "kick off".

 

[GoPitt88]

Maybe I haven't had enough coffee, but I do not see any mention of testing for ammonia!?

Did you add anything to 'kick off'' the cycling process? (food, shrimp, straight ammonia, etc)...

Yeah, and what about Nitrate? When I cycled, I tested for Ammonia, Nitrite, then Nitrate. First, Ammonia would increase.....then you’ll have Ammonia AND Nitrite......then, the ammonia starts to go down and you’ll have nitrite and nitrate. Then, when you’re nitrite is zero and you have only Nitrate, you’re cycled [emoji3] I never checked for phosphates until I started getting corals.

 

[sbash]

Nope no testing of ammonia or adding anything to "kick off" the cycling process. The guy in the store said that the live rock should start the cycling process. The dead materia on the rocks would be the "kick off".

Okay, well, I guess the store is technically correct. However, all we know (and we don't really know it at this point), is that rock can process the nitrogen cycle from the die-off's bioload.

If you are testing anything at this point, it should be ammonia. Nitrite and phosphate are not terribly useful metrics until you know your rock can process ammonia.

Drop in a small piece of dead shrimp for two days and test for ammonia daily (remove the shrimp, it will get super nasty, test daily for at least a week). You will either see an ammonia spike, or nothing at all. If you see nothing, then your tank is cycled.

The whole point is to increase the bioload on the system to ensure it can handle the nitrogen cycle when you start adding fish and livestock.

 

[Fredrik Andersson]

Thanks for the answers!
According to this thread LR should be enough to start the cycling, even if it takes a little bit longer:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1157501

And according to this thread,:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2105805

Its possible when using LS from an already established tank a nitrite peak wont occur in a new tank.

So maybe I should test for nitrate by now?

 

[sbash]

Thanks for the answers!
According to this thread LR should be enough to start the cycling, even if it takes a little bit longer:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1157501

And according to this thread,:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2105805

Its possible when using LS from an already established tank a nitrite peak wont occur in a new tank.

So maybe I should test for nitrate by now?

Okay, I get it, you are keen to add stuff to a bare tank. We all were and some of us still are.

Both of those linked threads state exactly what I said. So I'm not sure what point you are trying to go for here

The fact of the matter is that we don't technically know anything. Your tests would have the same results if you started with dry rock and sand. Unless, of course, you can actually quantify the die off from the rock.

This is why we add an ammonia source, like food, to a cycling tank. Not only does it help the nitrifying bacteria culture grow to handle a higher bioload than simple die off, it gives us tangible proof the cycling is happening - regardless of the test results.

Do you really want to add new pets to the tank without knowing they won't be poisoned?

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Thanks for the answers!
According to this thread LR should be enough to start the cycling, even if it takes a little bit longer:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1157501

And according to this thread,:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2105805

Its possible when using LS from an already established tank a nitrite peak wont occur in a new tank.

So maybe I should test for nitrate by now?

Don't test for nitrate until nitrite is 0 ppm. Most test kits will give you a false high reading of nitrate if there is any nitrite in the system.

If you aren't feeding the tank, then a reading of 1 ppm of PO4 would concern me. That tells me that your LR is leaching PO4 and you may have a problem with algae in the future. There are threads on curing live rock, check them out.

 

[brandon429]

You mentioned some details that possibly make this a skip cycle setup, post pics of your rock. Skip cycle doesn’t mean rush anything, add fish, it simply means 50% of the types of rocks we use in a cycle xfer all bacteria over from the pet store, since moving rocks among tanks is never an antibiotic move. Pics

If you were already cycled on day one then waiting longer doesn’t change anything, move to step two whatever you had planned after cycle. It’s not that pics tell you if all tanks are cycled, it’s that they tell you which portion of the 50% you are dealing with. if these are skip cycle rocks, then they’ll wait till your vaca is done to proceed.

There is a group of rocks we don’t add ammonia to, and one group we do, so that where ammonia is administered takes into account tiny animals we can see, that die, if we dose it. Interestingly, if the tiny animals are there on live rock (pics) we know not to dose ammonia, and those animals indicate full bac complement even though we cant see bac...we can see their associates. 50% of rocks used in reefing require no testing whatsoever to move among tanks and then proceed to step two.

The reason this is impactful is because cycling approach affects your stance/procedure on early algae invasion, hesitancy vs indicated action, so to know where the real procedural boundaries exist and to seize them affects how long your tank lives before invasion tests + losses or conquering. It simply means that being able to call a shot and then take it based on an exact current condition begins the path of deliberation vs hesitation, that’s the biggest attribute i can think of in reefing.

Ammonia is for dry rock setups. And verification

Live rock gets no ammonia, we verify with our eyes (coralline, moving animals, fanworms) and with our noses (trace ammonia has a smell always, though test kits vary in accuracy) = attributes of the uninvaded reefer (I know these realms don’t seem connected, at all, but they’re connected)

The way we cycle a tank is either the first manifestion of doubt or the first manifestion of pure certainty, which affects your reefing career more than is readily apparent

With pics am looking for % of obvious live rock vs white or base rock, details about the sand (if it was wet pack sand like caribsea etc) and from pics we can see which type of cycle you have undertaken. Procedural certainty will still come from pics even if it's not live rock. Making the other 50% do our predicted bidding is just as easy. It takes three weeks.

 

[brandon429]

That above is a summary of this cycling thread

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/

*true live rock is tough and if you dose it anyway it's not going to kill it. There's nothing within reason you can do to uncycle it, which is why it moves from pet store to home so easily. the thread is about making moves where indicated and and about being free from test kits, where accuracy ranges tremendously.

 

[Fredrik Andersson]

Thanks for all the answers! I added som pics below. I have the lights turned off. Anyway as you can see I have some living things in the tank. I also have a snail that came with the LR, couldnt find him for a picture, but he is growing fast Also notice the "flowers" on the stone down to the right, second pic.

After some posting on a FB group they also thinks that by using LR from a established tank I wont have a no2 cycling. So my next step will be to test for nitrate and then let the tank rest for 2w while Im away (and also deal with the phosphate before adding any fishes).

You can also see some dead marco stones. Maybe it is these who released the phosphate? In the main tank (20 g) I have 13 pounds of the LR and 8 pounds of the Marco stone.

 

[brandon429]

That's perfect

One last pic we need is full tank pic standing back at a distance to check the ratio of live to base rock

The base rock may or may not be pre cycled we cover in the thread, and it's ok to wait for them to catch up as the fallow time required to successfully introduce fish into a reef already handles maturation for the uncycled/questionable status rocks

 

[Fredrik Andersson]

"Perfect" as in just buy a nitrate test and let the aqurium be for the next 3w?

Here are some additional pics:

 

[brandon429]

It is fully ok to cycle that with testing using the common methods, the big three, however the specific way id do it could not be simpler: leave it in this exact condition for thirty days total. Change all the water out, or most of it after thirty days, refill, add starter corals, then complete fallow phasing for fish and that's fully complete

 

[Fredrik Andersson]

Thanks for the help! So if I let it be for another 3 w (6w total) and if the nitrite is 0 and if the nitrate is below 5. Then I make a water change and then it should be OK to add a cleaning crew? (Will start with that and if they survive for a week or so I will add clowns)

 

[brandon429]

My threads are purely submersion time-based we don't use test readings

After 30 days you can add whatever you want to add, cycling completes by then. Cuc is great

If you choose to base it on what test kits say that's another Fair way to approach it as well either way is fine

We cover in later pages in that thread the minimum submersion time it takes to put nitrifiers on a Surface regardless of what test kits say... three weeks is bare minimal. We like to round to a month for safety, every item that has been underwater alongside real live rock for one month is fully cycled for nitrifying bacteria and their biofilm -and will pass oxidation testing on its own in a different container if verification is handy.

 

[Fredrik Andersson]

Great! Think I test it for both nitrate and nitrite when I'm back ("both braces and belt..." a swedish expression)