2 year cycle - 0 Nitrate .4 Phosphate

[bkpky]

250 gallon system. I am struggling to understand this balance of zero nitrate and high phosphate. Water cycled for 1 year before adding 5 tang and 4 clowns. It has been another year of fighting algae in various stages. I have not been exporting any nutrients except that which was pulled out from a skimmer and filter floss pads. I have gone through 1.5 clean up crew packs from Reef Cleaners. I attempted to start Cheato in a refugium and it died. Have been dosing Vibrant for 2 months twice weekly and GHA is still not going away. Test kits are Hannah ULR Phos and Red Sea Pro Nitrate.

My rock did come from my previous tank which was stored in a closed rubbermaid trash can for almost 2 years while moving. I did not bleach nor acid dip. I power washed and let it sit outside on concrete drive for a few weeks before putting it into the current tank and starting the above mentioned cycle.

I am hesitant to introduce coral until this algae / nutrient balance is better under control. I have attempted phosphate removal over the last weeks. Kent Sponge (too expensive), Phosphate-E (Tangs not happy), now GFO. See the dips in levels the last weeks.

How do I flip this in-balance and clear this algae? And yes, April to October life is cycling outdoors and tank sport goes into essential maintenance mode!

 

[Lonely reefer's]

I'm no expert.How long you running your lights

 

[NY_Caveman]

The Phosphate is likely from the rock, or possibly from heavy feeding. If you are not feeding heavy you may want to consider dosing Nitrate very slowly. Bringing it up a little (repeat, slowly) may bring those nutrients in balance and make them available for corals and Macroalgae.

 

[wesman42]

It also looks like the tank is directly across from a window. That's not recommended unless you want a ton of algae.

 

[bkpky]

I'm no expert.How long you running your lights

Running 3 Radion Gen4 Pro at around 45% for 8 hours.

 

[bkpky]

The Phosphate is likely from the rock, or possibly from heavy feeding. If you are not feeding heavy you may want to consider dosing Nitrate very slowly. Bringing it up a little (repeat, slowly) may bring those nutrients in balance and make them available for corals and Macroalgae.

I am feeding daily from an Automatic Feeder. Just one rotation on the smallest release setting. A week ago I changed form daily to 3 times weekly. The tangs feast on the GHA anyway!

 

[bkpky]

It also looks like the tank is directly across from a window. That's not recommended unless you want a ton of algae.

What you see is a large sliding glass door. It is about 20 feet from the tank and the area outside it is a covered patio so I do not get direct sunlight from that side. The other side however is facing an office that has a window as well. I keep light filtering shades down but do get a small bit of direct sunlight early spring that hits the tank. The tank is built into the wall dividing our living room from our home office.

 

[wesman42]

What you see is a large sliding glass door. It is about 20 feet from the tank and the area outside it is a covered patio so I do not get direct sunlight from that side. The other side however is facing an office that has a window as well. I keep light filtering shades down but do get a small bit of direct sunlight early spring that hits the tank. The tank is built into the wall dividing our living room from our home office.

So it's unavoidable in this situation. That's no problem really. My tank is across the room from a window....but as you know, water magnifies. The window looked closer to me [emoji23].

You might try adding an urchin. Waiting around for nutrients before adding coral probably isn't the best plan as corals help with uptake of nutrients.

 

[bkpky]

I did go ahead and does 1ppm of Nitrate last evening. I also have a high capacity GFO that should arrive today. Maybe getting some Nitrate into my system will allow me to get the Cheato going. The urchin sounds like a great idea to clean up all the algae in the sand bed. I know I have to get better at more regular testing and removal / dosing until this kicks into a healthier gear.

What I have struggled to learn in my reading the last weeks... where are the Nitrates? Bound up in the Algae or is my skimmer/filer floss doing too much?

 

[bluewill]

Do you have anything other than fish ? . Personally I would get a large clean up crew ( snails /Hermits ) to keep your microalgae in check . remove your mechanical filtration ( Filter Floss in previous post ) for a while, and maybe turn your skimmer off for part of the day, 5 Tangs and 4 clown fish is a pretty light biological load for a 250 gal tank . maybe some live rock from LFS. to get your bioload increased, and more diversified .2 years is a long time to cycle. you wrote you have not exported nutrients other than skimming and mechanical filtration , but that may constitute alot of nutrient exporting. Alot of reefers now are understanding the benefits of running slightly dirtier ( higher nutrient) systems. I have had many tanks over 30 years , having any near high ambient natural light will always result in higher hair algae growth. . Your picture is not really enough to determine how bad your algae problem is but in most nutrient high , and and high bioload systems hair algae is kept at bay by the various herbivore tank inhabitants. Are you doing water changes ?

 

[bluewill]

Do you have anything other than fish ? . Personally I would get a large clean up crew ( snails /Hermits ) to keep your microalgae in check . remove your mechanical filtration ( Filter Floss in previous post ) for a while, and maybe turn your skimmer off for part of the day, 5 Tangs and 4 clown fish is a pretty light biological load for a 250 gal tank . maybe some live rock from LFS. to get your bioload increased, and more diversified .2 years is a long time to cycle. you wrote you have not exported nutrients other than skimming and mechanical filtration , but that may constitute alot of nutrient exporting. Alot of reefers now are understanding the benefits of running slightly dirtier ( higher nutrient) systems. I have had many tanks over 30 years , having any near high ambient natural light will always result in higher hair algae growth. . Your picture is not really enough to determine how bad your algae problem is but in most nutrient high , and and high bioload systems hair algae is kept at bay by the various herbivore tank inhabitants. Are you doing water changes ?

 

[bluewill]

Do you have anything other than fish ? . Personally I would get a large clean up crew ( snails /Hermits ) to keep your microalgae in check . remove your mechanical filtration ( Filter Floss in previous post ) for a while, and maybe turn your skimmer off for part of the day, 5 Tangs and 4 clown fish is a pretty light biological load for a 250 gal tank . maybe some live rock from LFS. to get your bioload increased, and more diversified .2 years is a long time to cycle. you wrote you have not exported nutrients other than skimming and mechanical filtration , but that may constitute alot of nutrient exporting. Alot of reefers now are understanding the benefits of running slightly dirtier ( higher nutrient) systems. I have had many tanks over 30 years , having any near high ambient natural light will always result in higher hair algae growth. . Your picture is not really enough to determine how bad your algae problem is but in most nutrient high , and and high bioload systems hair algae is kept at bay by the various herbivore tank inhabitants. Are you doing water changes ?

 

[bluewill]

Do you have anything other than fish ? . Personally I would get a large clean up crew ( snails /Hermits ) to keep your microalgae in check . remove your mechanical filtration ( Filter Floss in previous post ) for a while, and maybe turn your skimmer off for part of the day, 5 Tangs and 4 clown fish is a pretty light biological load for a 250 gal tank . maybe some live rock from LFS. to get your bioload increased, and more diversified .2 years is a long time to cycle. you wrote you have not exported nutrients other than skimming and mechanical filtration , but that may constitute alot of nutrient exporting. Alot of reefers now are understanding the benefits of running slightly dirtier ( higher nutrient) systems. I have had many tanks over 30 years , having any near high ambient natural light will always result in higher hair algae growth. . Your picture is not really enough to determine how bad your algae problem is but in most nutrient high , and and high bioload systems hair algae is kept at bay by the various herbivore tank inhabitants. Are you doing water changes ?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

If your nitrates are that low , consider an algae turf scrubber rather than chato. A Santa Monica style one is easy to add. Gha , as you see, needs less foods.

Try to get a clearer picture if you can for an ID. GHA is also a blanket label for many species. You may have a more difficult species.

Clearly the vibrant isn’t working. It also packs a potent carbon source AND bacteria that will drop nitrates to nothing and then hit the Po4. Like all carbon dosing does.
So you’d be dosing no3 and adding it.

I’d reccomend the use of fluconazole instead. Seems to work very well on all Types thin hairy algaes , and in larger doses even chato , calurpas and bubble algae, while avoiding messing with your nutrients, save those from algae die off.

 

[bluewill]

2 years is a long time to be cycling . I agree with wesman that waiting around for nutrients before adding any corals probably isnt the best plan.
Alot of reefers have realized the benefits of running a slighter dirtier system . You need a big clean up crew , to keep the algae at bay while increasing the bioload , and Bioload diversity . 5 tangs and 4 clownfish is a relatively light load for a 250 gal tank. why dont you try and naturally increase both nutrients import and nutrient export . remove your mechanical filtration for a while ( you claim using filter floss) . and maybe reduce the time the skimmer is running.
also maybe adding some live rock from your LFS .( ask for the older rock ) to increase your bio diversity , alot of life gets introduced to the system with the addition of live rock, even in small amounts. Get a bunch of snails/ hermit crabs to keep algae at bay. Continuing to address your hair algae issues with chemical additions and nutrient export while trying to increase nitrate , is a viscous cycle. You've been cycling your system with fish only. Since your de-nitrifing bacteria is obviously established hence the 0 nitrates, start increasing your bio load , with the right herbivores your hair algae problem will take care of itself

 

[bkpky]

Do you have anything other than fish ? . Personally I would get a large clean up crew ( snails /Hermits ) to keep your microalgae in check . remove your mechanical filtration ( Filter Floss in previous post ) for a while, and maybe turn your skimmer off for part of the day, 5 Tangs and 4 clown fish is a pretty light biological load for a 250 gal tank . maybe some live rock from LFS. to get your bioload increased, and more diversified .2 years is a long time to cycle. you wrote you have not exported nutrients other than skimming and mechanical filtration , but that may constitute alot of nutrient exporting. Alot of reefers now are understanding the benefits of running slightly dirtier ( higher nutrient) systems. I have had many tanks over 30 years , having any near high ambient natural light will always result in higher hair algae growth. . Your picture is not really enough to determine how bad your algae problem is but in most nutrient high , and and high bioload systems hair algae is kept at bay by the various herbivore tank inhabitants. Are you doing water changes ?

Thank you so much for input! I actually do have about 150+lb of live rock that has been in the system for 1.5 years. That is what I initially I feared was leaching phosphate. I use the Genesis ATO/AWC system and assuming there is not a high/low level fault (empty or low mix bins) that goes unnoticed for days / weeks then it is set to change a gallon per day. I am considering changing to a weekly routine on water change.

GFO is bringing the phosphate down now. And last evening with Nitrate dosing 1ppm per day is averaging now .25 pmm - so something certainly is consuming the nitrate!

 

[bkpky]

If your nitrates are that low , consider an algae turf scrubber rather than chato. A Santa Monica style one is easy to add. Gha , as you see, needs less foods.

Try to get a clearer picture if you can for an ID. GHA is also a blanket label for many species. You may have a more difficult species.

Clearly the vibrant isn’t working. It also packs a potent carbon source AND bacteria that will drop nitrates to nothing and then hit the Po4. Like all carbon dosing does.
So you’d be dosing no3 and adding it.

I’d reccomend the use of fluconazole instead. Seems to work very well on all Types thin hairy algaes , and in larger doses even chato , calurpas and bubble algae, while avoiding messing with your nutrients, save those from algae die off.

Thanks for the advice! I have both a Refugium (10 gallon) from a previous tank. I really do not to waste good hardware! I also have a really cool custom cheato reactor that Tony Roybal out of Evansville Indiana built. I want to eventually grow more ornamental algae for feeding the tangs in the refugium while keeping cheato separated in a reactor. I certainly will try the fluconazole instead of the vibrant!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

It's not unusual to have elevated phosphate and normal or even low nitrate because there are processes the remove nitrate and not phosphate (e.g., denitrification).

The rock may also have been an initial source of phosphate and not nitrate.

That all said, I would not assume that reducing phosphate to normal target levels (say, 0.02 ppm) will eliminate the algae issue.

You might be better off with something that eats it than just trying to drive phosphate down, although it won't hurt.

 

[roberthu526]

Dosing nitrate has worked for me. You can buy calcium or sodium nitrate on amazon and use Randy’s recipe to dose according to your levels.

 

[bkpky]

My Phosphate swings have been wild! See chart. Since I'm on the upswing again I changed from standard GFO to High Capacity GFO. Unsure if the other was exhausted. The high capacity is so much cleaner!

Observing the tank with partial light I was able to see some "red stuff" among all the green! Considering the rapid spread I am now thinking this may be a cyanobacteria outbreak. I had chemi-clean so I decided to see if it will knock this stuff down before moving to the fluconazole.

 

[bkpky]

4 days after Chemi-Clean and 3 days lights out there is little to know change. The bit of algae on rock has decrease but this stuff across the sand bed has got worse. Good news is Nitrate is up to 1ppm without dosing. Phosphate is down to .1ppm. Still running GFO and Cheato arrived today and is in the reactor. My wife is taking a sample of this stuff to her work tomorrow as they have a microscope.

 

[bkpky]

Chemiclean did nothing. Been working on PO4 with GFO. It swings often. Nitrates got back to zero fast. Finally got the specimen under a microscope. Interesting video. The bug seemed to be collecting up the stains of algae into clumps. These pictures were taken from samples 24 hours after dosing reef flux.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Chemiclean is an antibiotic that will only work on cyanobacteria. What you have doesn't look much like cyano to me.