230 gallon in-wall, room divider, reef build

[MarsRover]

Well as somewhat anticipated, judge couldn't establish proof of service...

DESPITE the fact that degregori did file the motion to dismiss...acknowledging he received the original motion.....

Judge straight up said it's impossible to serve an out of state person/entity in the way required for small claims unless it is auto or real property related...

gotta go to a higher court...costing me more stress money and time...swell.

 

[shoelaceike]

Thanks folks for support. Waiting for court to open now. Got my demonstration materials in hand to show what happens to a brittle
Material like glass (using rigid foam) when it is loaded and the middle and is supported vs isn’t supported!



Yeah, I spent many emails and phone calls with the owner of the company and it was clear he wasn’t interested in making it right. As I said above, those were the only options he was willing to offer. I kept trying to negotiate with him but he wasn’t interested in hearing me and instead wanted to attack my analysis etc... so my lawyer friend told me to just go get a judge to handle it since he isn’t being reasonable. I hate this too unfortunately





Not sure what you mean by that? The pvc bottom of the tank is NOT touching the wood top deck of the stand in the nominal (non failing) design.

The issue with the tank is that having no center support on the bottom edges of the tank, the steel frame around the tank glass wants to deflect (bend) but the glass doesn’t. Between the two, communicating between the two materials in this tug of war, is the silicone.

Glass is brittle and resists bending....to a point. At that point it catastrophically fails. Silicone also will communicate this tug of war only so much. By virtue of this communication between the dissimilar materials, The silicone is being stressed beyond what the original design intended, causing premature ware and end of life. Eventually the stress on the silicone will cause an adhesion or adhesive failure causing the tank to leak or catastrophically fail.

Hope that helps?

After all this is over, I plan to finish some articles that hopefully R2R will publish. In addition to just strength, many of our tanks are unsafe in tip over. My articles explain to any layperson step by step some of these basic engineering calculations so that they can double check tank builders’ “ideas” before they make their purchases.

I have seen many tanks with floating glass bottoms be supported only on the corners. It seems the weight goes to the walls or something. Not an engineer lol. Probably with PVC its different.

 

[MarsRover]

I have seen many tanks with floating glass bottoms be supported only on the corners. It seems the weight goes to the walls or something. Not an engineer lol. Probably with PVC its different.

No the weight does not go to the walls and it’s not different with PVC.

One thing with glass over pvc, if you have thick enough glass that is tempered, if the vertical panes support the water the bottom can. Adding rocks and gravel changes that fact though.

PVC, as with all polymers under sustained stress, it undergoes crazing. Basically, it will sag/stretch. But, again, with thick enough PVC that’s not an issue for certain plane sizes.

 

[shoelaceike]

I see thanks.

 

[RCS82]

Wow, quite the read and poor situation.
Following definitely.

 

[MarsRover]

Okay well, thanksgiving holiday, working. Despite the looming depression due to the ongoing situation with AGE turning my dream tank into a huge nightmare, I'm getting a little motivated to do some care for the fish tank

Re-set up my doing pumps and CAD'd/printed this cute little dosing-tube holder that hangs under my ATO on one of my sump baffles. Until now i just had the tubes all over the place but found precipitation on the tips of the tubes when they are in/contacting the water. This keeps them tidy and elevated and dripping in a high flow area away from pumps so i don't get precip in my pumps either. Right now have it located dripping into the entrance to the baffles between my skimmer section / refugium section:



I also am thinking about making the switch to Red Sea Supplements (using B-Ionic presently). I made a calculator to determine how much it's going to cost me, dry vs liquid supplements etc..., to run their full mixed reef recipes.
I've attached the file as a .pdf. if you'd like to use it for your own needs, download the file and change the file extension from .pdf to .xlsx and it should work for you. Pretty surprising the difference in costs between dry / premixed



as for an update on the court garbage:

I am working on filling out ALL the forms to take the company to the next highest court. It just bums me out so bad when i have to do them that it is taking a while. I really resent that AGE's operating illegally in California (no california Secretary of state registered 3rd party agent for service of process) is making it more difficult (and expensive) for me to get heard in court and solve this situation once and for all.

 

[KingJason]

Well as somewhat anticipated, judge couldn't establish proof of service...

DESPITE the fact that degregori did file the motion to dismiss...acknowledging he received the original motion.....

Judge straight up said it's impossible to serve an out of state person/entity in the way required for small claims unless it is auto or real property related...

gotta go to a higher court...costing me more stress money and time...swell.

Bummer man...what a mess.

 

[MarsRover]

Bummer man...what a mess.

Yeah man I’ll tell ya, definitely none of this has been worth it for sure. Hope you’re tank is doing well.

Going to get around to those papers hopefully over the holiday. Been working 60hour weeks lately so haven’t had a chance

 

[iReefer12]

My feelings exactly.

As per Roger of AGE: nothing they make has been engineered. Only one company has engineers, they’re in Colorado, and they’re very expensive because of the engineers which is why he (roger) doesn’t have engineering for AGE tanks and stands.....

FYI, photos their sales rep. sent me of them “testing” a new style stand. Yikes.....

Like I said.... good ol’ college try

Which company in Colorado? I’d like to know for future reference.

 

[Omgitsjoe]

Yeah man I’ll tell ya, definitely none of this has been worth it for sure. Hope you’re tank is doing well.

Going to get around to those papers hopefully over the holiday. Been working 60hour weeks lately so haven’t had a chance

No Idea how I found this thread, but how did the higher court situation go?

 

[MarsRover]

Never got there. It was too complicated and i didn't have the time to sort it out. Selling this tank if anyone wants it for a discount. I have now supported the stand so it is no longer in failure, but definitely not what i paid for.

Tank, L1 pump, chiller, all plumbing including the large SCWDs and over a thousand pounds of dry rock and dry sand (no heater no skimmer no wavemaker) and 40gal sump all for $6000 obo if you can get it out of my house by january 18th! Fully cycled no pests ever (dry rock sand only)

 

[MixedFruitBasket]

Sadly, this company will most likely not change (after all people just get tired and fix it themselves and move on) until a tragedy happens. I.E. a person is severely injured or killed as a result of their cheap stands. And they are doing cheap stands because it probably gives them an extra hundred-two hundred bucks profit.

Companies like this do not change until someone has the money, time, and anger to drag them kicking and screaming into court with lawyers and at least 200,000 in the bank to see out the lawsuit.

What this company is NOT thinking about is, they have been alerted to an issue, they have willfully chosen to ignore scientific data provided by an expert in the field of engineering. WHEN (and mark my words there will be a when) an individual is maimed or killed the owners will not only face losing everything and anything they even DREAMED of owning...they could very well go to prison for criminal negligence maybe even negligent homicide.

I would advise printing out this entire thread and filing it away. Might need it one day as documented evidence of them willfully ignoring the issue.

 

[MixedFruitBasket]

Never got there. It was too complicated and i didn't have the time to sort it out. Selling this tank if anyone wants it for a discount. I have now supported the stand so it is no longer in failure, but definitely not what i paid for.

Tank, L1 pump, chiller, all plumbing including the large SCWDs and over a thousand pounds of dry rock and dry sand (no heater no skimmer no wavemaker) and 40gal sump all for $6000 obo if you can get it out of my house by january 18th! Fully cycled no pests ever (dry rock sand only)

I really am sorry for this happening to you. I hate it that there are such rotten companies out there that get away with this kind of theft.

 

[MarsRover]

I really am sorry for this happening to you. I hate it that there are such rotten companies out there that get away with this kind of theft.

Yeah worst part was the judge in small claims knew I was getting screwed. Roger Degregori (AGE and the fish gallery owner) obviously got my forms cause he replied to the courts asking them to throw it out because “wrong venue”. It was only “wrong venue” because he was illegally selling in California (with nexus established by performing deliveries/assembly in person) but illegally didn’t have a registered third party agent for service of process (I.e. didn’t have a Cali based person/company for me to serve small claims notice to).

He knowingly hides in a loophole

 

[MarsRover]

Update:

I am moving from LA to DC for a new job (still NASA but different NASA center)

spoke to roger degregori who owns fish gallery / acrylic and glass exhibits (AGE A.G.E) and he agreed to build me a new tank and stand if I can return this tank and stand. So I am trailering it to near Dallas which is out of my way some but so be it. Handing the tank and stand off To roger, and then waiting for a brand new tank and stand.

full disclosure, Roger was much more reasonable And non-combative this time we talked. The only point of contention was how to return the tank to him (it seemed he wanted me to do it on my dime, but I proposed since I’m driving I’ll trailer it and he was agreeable with that). He asked again why the tank needed to be replaced and I explained his warranty (for non-age stand applications) is only valid as long as the stand always supports their tank on all edges at all times. I explained again his stand failed to meet that criteria and his stand voided the warranty on his tank. He said find and he’d build new both and ship them to me in Maryland.

so hope this goes to plan! Tank is broken down (what a nightmare....story later) and rock is out and sand it out. About to trailer it up today.