2nd cycle?

[ydarr]

Hey guys! Well our tank has been up and running since Feb 6th. The reason I titled this thread "2nd cycle", is because our tank already when through a cycle. Parameters have been perfect. Now, at the beginning of this week, this awful brown algae (?), has settled in. We also have this red slime on some of the rocks, with clear bubbles stuck to it, and certain parts of the substrate (under the top layer of sand), has a green algae growing. AND the water is CLOUDY!! My husband is so disgusted with the tank. I told him that it must be going through another cycle. What are your thoughts? I've attached pictures.

 

[brandon429]

easy solution and no other solution in any permutation will work as well.

you must disassemble and clean the whole tank all at once, then reset it all back up fully clean with no waste in the sandbed or in the rocks.


the algae has to be removed from the rocks first, fully, then the detritus that starts to come out of the rocks has to be dealt with in cleaning, then the whole sandbed needs a full rinse and reset. the tank will then look and behave like new. its too accumulated via the hands off reefing method, we do opposite of that. our peroxide threads have over 200 entrants with tank pics exactly like yours, the full clean is the fix, not anything you do to the water having not cleaned out that whole system 100%

detritus and flow issues are whats happening, no recycle.

not everyone will agree with full cleaning all at once, if that sounds unappealing then disregard.

claim still stands though, based on the threads we collected the after results in.

 

[brandon429]

the disassembly steps to clean your tank are found and discussed here.

everyone leaves their tank alone to store up wastes and take on various invaders because they fear disturbing/losing bacteria having cleaned things out, not the case the thread shows.

http://reef2reef.com/threads/the-of...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445

 

[briancarterkc]

To offer the contrary perspective, many people go through a stage of "the uglies" right around the 2 month mark. Tearing everything down and starting over seems drastic. You didn't mention your current parameters...what are your ammonia, nitrate, and phosphate?

I doubt this is a second cycle; cycle would mean your tank is back to not being able to break down ammonia and you have to rebuild the bacteria population. What you have here is much more likely a nutrient problem. The nutrient might be silicates as Brandon's post suggests, in which case the tear down would accelerate the fix, but then you would, in fact, probably have to cycle the tank again. Or the nutrient could be nitrate or phosphate latent in your rocks, in which case they'd need an acid bath. Water changes, GFO, and manual removal of the algae would be a less drastic first step. If you don't have coral, I'd also back off how many hours you have the lights on. If you don't see improvement after a month, then you might move to the tear down. I move pretty slowly in my reefing, so my opinion on taking a less aggressive approach at first is just that...an opinion.

 

[bobman]

I have to agree with briancarterkc this does not seem like a 2nd cycle. At least not in the form of ammonia. This looks like an extreme case of new tank ulgies which is a stage of your first cycle. How did you cycle the tank the first time? How high did your ammonia get during your cycle the first time. The algae appears to be lots of diatoms (which is very normal and will eventually go away) with a lot of cayno which is a bacteria. The cloudiness is also most likely a bacterial bloom which can also be normal but not really at this stage. Have to added anything to the tank to help with bacteria like bacteria in a bottle, vodka, vinegar, bio pellets. All of those can cause a bacterial bloom and possibly cayno. Tearing the tank down and scrubbing everything then putting it back in imo will clean the rock for a day or 2 but it will come back. I would like to see some water parameters with the questions above before I would advise of any course of action. The cloudy water will most likely clear up on its own very soon or a uv will clear it up as well. The cayno can also go away on its own but it can be a lot more of a pain and is not guaranteed to go away but it is also not hard to combat most of the time. The diatoms will go away on there own as well but a larger clean up crew will also help on this.

 

[ydarr]

Thanks @bobman & @briancarterkc , I don't have the specific numbers on the parameters. We are using the API SALTWATER LIQUID MASTER TEST KIT, so based on the color of the water in the tubes, up against the cards provided, we are on target with everything. This tank set-up has been hard for us. We did not start off with "LIVE" rock, we started with "LIFE ROCK" from Coralife, and dry rock. We were told to use "MicroBacter & Stability" - so we did. We also ghost fed the tank as well. We've had reef tanks in the past, but we cycled with live rock, and they did great, but this tank is going to be the death of us both. By no means are we trying to rush it, we totally understand that we need to take time, and we are more then happy to wait. I'm just worried with how it's looking - don't want it to end up having to start over again, and spending even more money.

 

[bobman]

Are you still using microbacter & Stability and how much are you ghost feeding and with what? I just looked up life rock and could not find any made by coral life so I am going to assume you meant caribsea as they make it either way it don't look to bad for rock. I would look into some other rocks to add to them down the road as they didn't look bad to don't seem exceptionally great either. Either way that's not the problem here. I seen some hermits and snails in the photos is that all that's in the tank right now or are there fish?

Still going to think it is just new tank uglies and the cloudy water could be from a slight overdose of microbacter. I know I have done that a time or 3 using that stuff. You cant really overdose the tank and cause a crash but you can surly cause a bacterial bloom with that stuff.

 

[ydarr]

Are you still using microbacter & Stability and how much are you ghost feeding and with what? I just looked up life rock and could not find any made by coral life so I am going to assume you meant caribsea as they make it either way it don't look to bad for rock. I would look into some other rocks to add to them down the road as they didn't look bad to don't seem exceptionally great either. Either way that's not the problem here. I seen some hermits and snails in the photos is that all that's in the tank right now or are there fish?

Still going to think it is just new tank uglies and the cloudy water could be from a slight overdose of microbacter. I know I have done that a time or 3 using that stuff. You cant really overdose the tank and cause a crash but you can surly cause a bacterial bloom with that stuff.

Actually haven't used the Microbacter & stability in over a month. We ghost fed with flakes - didn't want to do the shrimp. We've had crabs and snails in there for maybe a month and a half. Since we thought the tank cycled, and the parameters were perfect, we bought 3 chromis. All animals are fine, no signs of distress. We feed them brine shrimp, do A & B as well. We turn the tank on when we leave in the morning (around 6:30am), and turn it off around 7-8pm. Now, let me say this....we have a JBJ HQI tank, and we are having a hard time with the water temp - this light puts out some serious heat! - could this be the cause of the problem? We are going to order and LED light, and get rid of the hood all together. And yes, the rock is from Caribsea....sorry

 

[bobman]

How long have you had the fish and been feeding them? Based off your last post I couple things are screaming at me. Fist your light cycle is way to long for a HQI on that tank. Try to get a timer and cut it at least in half. You can get cheap timers at home depot that work great. JBJ I think that's the nano cube and if it is its the only all in one I have not had before so not sure about the filtration but that I highly doubt that's an issue right now. Secondly with ghost feeding flakes and using bacteria in a bottle like microbacter it is very unlikely you seen much of a ammonia spike if at all and it explains why you say the params were perfect as they were perfect (microbacter works). What I am seeing is the tank is about 2 months old you added the crabs at week 2 since you did not see a cycle and that's not a problem as the bacteria added from the bottle would have be plenty for the crabs. Not sure how long you have had the fish but sounds like those were added a little later probably after waiting about a month as most do in the hobby to establish the tank (again that's great). Problem is by just ghost feeding a little flake most of the bacteria in the bottle really don't have much to establish itself and most will die off. Now since you stopped adding the bacteria and dropped in 3 chromis in a nano cube and starting feeding richer foods that very well could have kicked off a second cycle. Combine that with the light cycle and warm temp from the light and you have a breeding ground for bacteria such as the cayno and cloudy water bloom. The diatom are just going to be there no matter what you do till they run its course.

If that sounds like a possibility then it does sound like you are actually in a second cycle and the only thing you can do is test religiously for ammonia and nitrites. Continue using the microbater as need along with water changes to keep ammonia down as much as possible and let it run its course. In this case you did most everything right but the 3 Chromis were a little much for the system to handle. Not sure what you are running in the back of that jbj but I would also recommend running lots of carbon and prurigen. With water changes remove as much cayno as you can but it will come back. You system has to catch up and it will but it will take some time. Hopefully the fish pull through. If you follow these steps they should be just fine.

Edit: had to add the bacterial bloom in the water column will displace oxygen so if you are running a skimmer great if not I would consider maybe a air pump (bubbler) or another means to keep oxygen levels elevated while the water is cloudy. When you add the microbacter as needed be prepared as it might contribute a little bit to the cloudy water till everything starts to get established. But it should actually start to clear up in a few days to a week. Also till it al clears up leave the lights off.

 

[ydarr]

How long have you had the fish and been feeding them? Based off your last post I couple things are screaming at me. Fist your light cycle is way to long for a HQI on that tank. Try to get a timer and cut it at least in half. You can get cheap timers at home depot that work great. JBJ I think that's the nano cube and if it is its the only all in one I have not had before so not sure about the filtration but that I highly doubt that's an issue right now. Secondly with ghost feeding flakes and using bacteria in a bottle like microbacter it is very unlikely you seen much of a ammonia spike if at all and it explains why you say the params were perfect as they were perfect (microbacter works). What I am seeing is the tank is about 2 months old you added the crabs at week 2 since you did not see a cycle and that's not a problem as the bacteria added from the bottle would have be plenty for the crabs. Not sure how long you have had the fish but sounds like those were added a little later probably after waiting about a month as most do in the hobby to establish the tank (again that's great). Problem is by just ghost feeding a little flake most of the bacteria in the bottle really don't have much to establish itself and most will die off. Now since you stopped adding the bacteria and dropped in 3 chromis in a nano cube and starting feeding richer foods that very well could have kicked off a second cycle. Combine that with the light cycle and warm temp from the light and you have a breeding ground for bacteria such as the cayno and cloudy water bloom. The diatom are just going to be there no matter what you do till they run its course.

If that sounds like a possibility then it does sound like you are actually in a second cycle and the only thing you can do is test religiously for ammonia and nitrites. Continue using the microbater as need along with water changes to keep ammonia down as much as possible and let it run its course. In this case you did most everything right but the 3 Chromis were a little much for the system to handle. Not sure what you are running in the back of that jbj but I would also recommend running lots of carbon and prurigen. With water changes remove as much cayno as you can but it will come back. You system has to catch up and it will but it will take some time. Hopefully the fish pull through. If you follow these steps they should be just fine.

Edit: had to add the bacterial bloom in the water column will displace oxygen so if you are running a skimmer great if not I would consider maybe a air pump (bubbler) or another means to keep oxygen levels elevated while the water is cloudy. When you add the microbacter as needed be prepared as it might contribute a little bit to the cloudy water till everything starts to get established. But it should actually start to clear up in a few days to a week.

Thank you so much @bobman ! We are actually using chemipure in the back, as well as ceramic rings, and the black sponge. Should we also use the Stability in conjunction to the Microbacter? I guess I will be purchasing the a skimmer, and timer this weekend! Again, thank you for taking the time to help me with our tank!

 

[bobman]

Honestly it makes no difference you can use either or both. They pretty much accomplish the same thing at the end of the day

 

[briancarterkc]

do A & B as well.

Do you mean you're using a 2-part buffer? If so, do you have anything that uses up calcium (corals, massive amounts of snails, etc)? Have you tested alkalinity and calcium? Alk should be 8-10 dKH and calc around 400-450. Unless those are dropping you don't want to add those buffers; too much can precipitate which would look like cloudiness or even snow. This could very well at least explain the cloudiness.