3 wrasse in qt with possible ich

[Bigfish of La.]

I have had these 3 wrasse in QT for 20 days now. The first week they were observed and all eating well and no symptoms. The tank has been treated twice with prazipro and just this weekend, noticed one of them with a slight popeye and treated with epsom salt 2 days ago.
Tonight I noticed all had small white spots on fins and body. They show no symptoms.
What method should I use?

 

[HairyGary]

I have had these 3 wrasse in QT for 20 days now. The first week they were observed and all eating well and no symptoms. The tank has been treated twice with prazipro and just this weekend, noticed one of them with a slight popeye and treated with epsom salt 2 days ago.
Tonight I noticed all had small white spots on fins and body. They show no symptoms.
What method should I use?

Pics? Are you sure it’s ICH? Could be velvet.

 

[HotRocks]

Can we get some pics? It sounds like it may be velvet.

Treatment is the same, and with Wrasse you are pretty much limited to copper...

 

[Humblefish]

Tonight I noticed all had small white spots on fins and body.

Wrasses are pretty ich resistant, so I think velvet is far more likely: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

Better start raising your Cu level ASAP.

 

[Big G]

+1 ^^^ Exactly

Be very wary of small white spots showing up. Lots of suppliers, shippers, LFS are dosing their fish with sub-therapeutic levels of copper to suppress velvet, ich, etc. So when you buy a fish and take it home it could take up to 30 days or so for the sub-therapeutic levels of copper to wear off and come roaring back. And velvet is rampant in the industry. The worse part is it doesn't always present in the normal time frame progression or symptoms. Because of this sometimes the fish are damaged "unseen" on their gills and die rapidly. So time is not your friend. Here's Humblefish's emergency treatment plan. If it were my fish, I'd start it ASAP.

The short version:

• 5 minute freshwater dip
• Immediately afterwards, perform a chemical bath (in saltwater matching SG/temp the fish came from). You have two options:

1. Acriflavine (preferred) - Do the bath for 75-90 minutes, but remove the fish immediately at the first sign of distress. Aerate heavily both before & during the bath, and temperature control the water. The following products contain acriflavine: Acriflavine-MS and Ruby Reef Rally. DO NOT mix acriflavine with any other chemicals.
2. Formalin - Do the bath for 30-60 minutes max, but remove the fish immediately at the first sign of distress. Aerate heavily both before & during the bath, and temperature control the water. The following products contain formalin: Formalin-MS, Quick Cure, Aquarium Solutions Ich-X, Kordon Rid-Ich Plus. Use protection (rubber gloves, face mask, eye protection, etc.) whenever handling formalin as it is a known carcinogen! However, you can add Methylene Blue to the formalin bath (1 capful per 2-3 gallons of bath water.)

• After the bath, place the fish in a QT pre-dosed at 80mg/gal using Chloroquine phosphate. In theory, copper (exs. Cupramine, Coppersafe, Copper Power) should work just as well as CP. However, due to how fast velvet can reproduce you don’t have the luxury of slowly ramping up the copper level as is normally advised. Therefore, the fish needs to be placed in a QT with copper already at minimum therapeutic levels. This is the advantage CP has over copper in this particular situation.
• While in QT, use a wide spectrum antibiotic (exs. Seachem Kanaplex, Furan-2) for the first week to ward off any possible bacterial infections. Secondary bacterial infections are very common in fish with preexisting parasitic infestations such as velvet.
• Keep the fish in CP or copper (at therapeutic levels) for one month. However, you can transfer the fish into a non-medicated holding tank for observation after just two weeks (explained below). DO NOT lower the CP or copper level before transferring.

 

[Bigfish of La.]

Can we get some pics? It sounds like it may be velvet.

Treatment is the same, and with Wrasse you are pretty much limited to copper...

Thanks will try and get pics

 

[Bigfish of La.]

Photos of one of the

flashers.

 

[Humblefish]

Probably velvet.

 

[Bigfish of La.]

Probably velvet.

Can I treat with cupramine tonight? What strength? Only thing I have on hand. Treated with prazipro 6/23.

 

[Humblefish]

Can I treat with cupramine tonight? What strength? Only thing I have on hand. Treated with prazipro 6/23.

Yes, treat @ 0.5ppm for 30 days.

 

[Bigfish of La.]

Yes, treat @ 0.5ppm for 30 days.

Would you recommend a FW dip first?

 

[Humblefish]

Would you recommend a FW dip first?

Yes: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/freshwater-dip.248898/

Also, a Rally bath afterwards for 90 minutes would be very helpful: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/acriflavine.282887/

I'm pretty sure Seth sells it.

 

[Bigfish of La.]

Yes: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/freshwater-dip.248898/

Also, a Rally bath afterwards for 90 minutes would be very helpful: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/acriflavine.282887/

I'm pretty sure Seth sells it.

Just completed FW dip. I’ll check with Seth tomorrow.

Thanks. Bobby

 

[Bigfish of La.]

Can I do the 75-90 min bath in the QT and follow with the third step?

 

[Humblefish]

Can I do the 75-90 min bath in the QT and follow with the third step?

I personally wouldn't use acriflavine in a QT because it turns the water nuclear green and IME also fouls the water after a few days. I also wouldn't mix it with copper.

Best to use as a bath treatment (in a small bucket) and then clean the bucket with vinegar afterwards. Heavily aerate and temperature control the bucket water.

 

[Bigfish of La.]

I called the vet this morning and she is in surgery at the moment. I then called the pharmacy and CP comes in 250mg and 500mg tablets, with the cost of $200. Can this be purchased in another form? druggist has never dispensed this before as its primary use is for malaria?

 

[HairyGary]

I called the vet this morning and she is in surgery at the moment. I then called the pharmacy and CP comes in 250mg and 500mg tablets, with the cost of $200. Can this be purchased in another form? druggist has never dispensed this before as its primary use is for malaria?

I would use CopperPower or a chelated copper equivalent. Wrasses do not take CP well. Check out this thread.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-and-treatment-guidelines-with-chart.283450/

 

[Bigfish of La.]

Thanks. I read that thread late last night along with a lot of the other links posted here. Just slipped my mind.

I'm headed to my LFS shortly to see if they have CopperSafe or CopperPower as well as the chemical dip Humblefish recommends to perform before copper treatment.

I checked on the fish quickly this morning and they seem to be doing well. I noticed that the two flashers showing salt grains on their fins head etc. before the FW dip had no signs of them today. Is that a normal occurence?

 

[Humblefish]

I checked on the fish quickly this morning and they seem to be doing well. I noticed that the two flashers showing salt grains on their fins head etc. before the FW dip had no signs of them today. Is that a normal occurence?

Yes, a single 5 min FW dip can force 80-90% of the trophonts to drop off.

 

[Bigfish of La.]

Yes, a single 5 min FW dip can force 80-90% of the trophonts to drop off.

What is my next step? Going to Seth’s so I will need a list of meds needed in event I don’t have them.

Thanks Bobby