3rd and final try... what am I doing wrong?

[karo25]

I have been attempting to keep and grow Chaeto in my refugium. As the title states, this will be the third time I've purchased Chaeto with each previous attempt slowly melting away over time. The Chaeto slowly looses color over a couple of months with the ball getting smaller and smaller. I have never produced enough to trim it back.
Originally in my sump the skimmer came first, then the Chaeto but I thought perhaps the skimmer was removing too much of the nutrients (even though GHA grew very well in that section), so I have since moved the Chaeto to the first section with the return pipes and the skimmer comes in the second section. I have also removed the socks I have been using.. I am sockless!

So here's the set up: 15"(L) x 15"(W) x 11"(H) approx. 10.7 gallons
Kessil H80 Tuna Flora Refugium LED light 8" off the water (100% output tuned to "Grow" spectrum)
Salinity 1.026
Ammonia 0.0
Nitrite 0.0
Nitrate 10
Phosphate 0.0
Alkalinity 9.1
Calcium 420
Magnesium 1350
PH 7.86 - 8.1 (Usually around 7.91)
Temp 78.6
Iron 0.05

I had done some research that said Chaeto needed Iron to more easily uptake nutrients and my system tested as 0 so I've been dosing Iron and I've not seen a change in the Chaeto. Still loosing color and generally looking quite sad.
Any suggestions? Am I missing something?

 

[ws6kid]

0 pO4 is a problem for growing algae like this. If I understand photosynthesis at all, it requires both nitrate and phosphate to take place.

Why are you trying to grow this when your tank has low enough nutrients without it?

If you start feeding your fish and aquarium more frequently, you will get the po4 up in the tank and feed the algae.

It just looks to me like you dont really have a reason to be growing that stuff right now. Everything else looks good

 

[Crabs McJones]

I have been attempting to keep and grow Chaeto in my refugium. As the title states, this will be the third time I've purchased Chaeto with each previous attempt slowly melting away over time. The Chaeto slowly looses color over a couple of months with the ball getting smaller and smaller. I have never produced enough to trim it back.
Originally in my sump the skimmer came first, then the Chaeto but I thought perhaps the skimmer was removing too much of the nutrients (even though GHA grew very well in that section), so I have since moved the Chaeto to the first section with the return pipes and the skimmer comes in the second section. I have also removed the socks I have been using.. I am sockless!

So here's the set up: 15"(L) x 15"(W) x 11"(H) approx. 10.7 gallons
Kessil H80 Tuna Flora Refugium LED light 8" off the water (100% output tuned to "Grow" spectrum)
Salinity 1.026
Ammonia 0.0
Nitrite 0.0
Nitrate 10
Phosphate 0.0
Alkalinity 9.1
Calcium 420
Magnesium 1350
PH 7.86 - 8.1 (Usually around 7.91)
Temp 78.6
Iron 0.05

I had done some research that said Chaeto needed Iron to more easily uptake nutrients and my system tested as 0 so I've been dosing Iron and I've not seen a change in the Chaeto. Still loosing color and generally looking quite sad.
Any suggestions? Am I missing something?

Following along, I have a similar issue. I have the H80 about 4" off the water for mine. I'm going to start dosing Iron and Magnese as soon as it arrives.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Looks like you don't need cheato yet.

 

[ddrueckh]

My guess is too strong of light or not enough nutrients. I don't think Chaeto does well with too strong of a light (at least in my experience). I use an aqua gadget fuge light and the Chaeto grows super fast. At the same time, I don't run a skimmer so it gets all the nutrients.

 

[karo25]

0 pO4 is a problem for growing algae like this. If I understand photosynthesis at all, it requires both nitrate and phosphate to take place.

Why are you trying to grow this when your tank has low enough nutrients without it?

If you start feeding your fish and aquarium more frequently, you will get the po4 up in the tank and feed the algae.

It just looks to me like you dont really have a reason to be growing that stuff right now. Everything else looks good

I have a GFO/Carbon reactor which is the reason the PO4 is 0. I can certainly turn that off, but even now I have some cyno bacteria growing in the display and I'm a bit afraid that will bloom out of control with the reactor shut down. I thought I understood that if your system was growing GHA and Cyno then there's enough nutrients for the Chaeto, is that not true?

 

[Crabs McJones]

I have a GFO/Carbon reactor which is the reason the PO4 is 0. I can certainly turn that off, but even now I have some cyno bacteria growing in the display and I'm a bit afraid that will bloom out of control with the reactor shut down. I thought I understood that if your system was growing GHA and Cyno then there's enough nutrients for the Chaeto, is that not true?

That is true, however, with the GFO and the hair algea, there's probably nothing left for your Chaeto to take in. The GFO is removing it and the hair algea is eating it up faster than the Chaeto. You have to get the Chaeto to a point where it outcompetes the hair algea. I'm struggling in that area as well.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I have a GFO/Carbon reactor which is the reason the PO4 is 0. I can certainly turn that off, but even now I have some cyno bacteria growing in the display and I'm a bit afraid that will bloom out of control with the reactor shut down. I thought I understood that if your system was growing GHA and Cyno then there's enough nutrients for the Chaeto, is that not true?

How old is the tank? You might be trying to fight cycles that shouldn't be fought.

 

[DeepBlueSomething]

FWIW

I have this light below hung over my refugium about 6 inches above water. Chaeto is growing quite well - tank is 6 weeks old. Skimmer is upstream in drain chamber - chaeto and mix of LR in fuge. Chaeto is not tumbling -- just hanging out and growing

https://www.amazon.com/Lemontec-Eff...id=1510080312&sr=8-16&keywords=grow+light+led

 

[reeferfoxx]

FWIW

I have this light below hung over my refugium about 6 inches above water. Chaeto is growing quite well - tank is 6 weeks old. Skimmer is upstream in drain chamber - chaeto and mix of LR in fuge. Chaeto is not tumbling -- just hanging out and growing

https://www.amazon.com/Lemontec-Eff...id=1510080312&sr=8-16&keywords=grow+light+led

Are you running gfo also?

 

[DeepBlueSomething]

Are you running gfo also?

No GFO currently - like others, I am working through some GHA and Po4 and nitrate are not measurable -- at least with my API kit.

 

[reeferfoxx]

No GFO currently - like others, I am working through some GHA and Po4 and nitrate are not measurable -- at least with my API kit.

Yeah, you don't want export media outcompeting your macro algae. Otherwise both are pointless.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Not to mention GAC removes iron.

 

[Sierra_Bravo]

That is true, however, with the GFO and the hair algea, there's probably nothing left for your Chaeto to take in. The GFO is removing it and the hair algea is eating it up faster than the Chaeto. You have to get the Chaeto to a point where it outcompetes the hair algea. I'm struggling in that area as well.

Not an algae expert, but this sounds like a common sense explanation. What you want the chaeto to do to your GHA and cyano - denying it sufficient nutrients to grow and thus "melt away" - is what your GHA, cyano, an GFO reactor are doing in reverse to your chaeto.

Would it make sense to dial back the GFO in conjunction with your chaeto being reintroduced, allowing it to establish itself?

 

[karo25]

How old is the tank? You might be trying to fight cycles that shouldn't be fought.

7 months old

 

[reeferfoxx]

Would it make sense to dial back the GFO in conjunction with your chaeto being reintroduced, allowing it to establish itself?

What would make sense is using the benefits of cheato without the use of export media removing the benefits. Meaning, if your cheato isnt sufficient enough to remove the po4 and no3, we would then incorporate gfo or bio media like pellets, matrix, or carbon dosing to remove excess nutrients. However before doing so, we need to understand the importance of nutrients as a whole and not seen as toxic additions to reefs.

 

[DeepBlueSomething]

Yeah, you don't want export media outcompeting your macro algae. Otherwise both are pointless.

My logic as well. Keep pulling the GHA and have CuC work on it while giving the Chaeto extended light period. DT runs 12 hour photoperiod with ramp -- Fuge runs 16 hours no ramp (off-cycle). So I am trying to give Chaeto the advantage to outcompete the GHA.

I believe this is over simplifying it (or it would be easy for everyone to just swing the balance of algae growth out of the DT) -- but I also think it is a 'common sense' starting point?

 

[karo25]

Not an algae expert, but this sounds like a common sense explanation. What you want the chaeto to do to your GHA and cyano - denying it sufficient nutrients to grow and thus "melt away" - is what your GHA, cyano, an GFO reactor are doing in reverse to your chaeto.

Would it make sense to dial back the GFO in conjunction with your chaeto being reintroduced, allowing it to establish itself?

I will certainly give that a try and shut down the reactor.

 

[DeepBlueSomething]

7 months old

My young tank comes by its GHA from LR that come from well established tanks from another hobbyist -- so I don't view it as a 'natural cycle' as much as a potential runaway. Its growth rate is alarming and coinciding with the substantial drop in Nitrates (po4 -- was never really detectable).

 

[DeepBlueSomething]

I will certainly give that a try and shut down the reactor.

Let us know how that goes -- and keep an eye on the nutrients to see how everything reacts. Good luck!